What if Leo didn't get it exactly right the first time around?

[LowActionHero]

For the past five years, I've been using vintage-inspired Fender Jazzes and Precisions exclusively. I believed in the adage that Leo got it right the first time around with the Jazz and the '57 Precision onwards.

Yesterday, I got a "modern" bass and couldn't believe how wrong Leo had been:

• Truss rod access requires having to remove the neck
• Tuners weight so much, resulting in serious neck dive
• Bridge requires strings go through it, which is mildly inconvenient when changing strings
• Threaded saddles causes smaller gauge strings to move move around
• Single coil hum (Jazz bass)
• 7.25-inch fingerboard radius, requiring more neck relief and so higher action
• Heel design makes it had to access last frets.

Also, when we say, "Leo got it right the first time around," we usually mean the '57 Precision, which isn't exactly the "first time around."

You could Leo created a bass that works in most if not all genres, but isn't that only because it was, for a while, the only bass available on the market, more or less? Would we say the same thing of the Warwick Thumb, for example, had it been the first bass on the market and played on all those classic records?

So, what exactly did Leo get right?

That's where G&Ls come in...

 

[socialleper]

Maybe on stage, but you never really know what was used in the studio.

What genre will never use a P? That's a pretty bold statement...

All the bands in that genre, not one will use a P. Ridiculous hyperbole.

It's not at all. Because a P bass is physically incapable of making certain tones, don't sound good at those tunings played fast, and 6 string versions don't exist without a custom build. Even 5 strings are very rare.
You will never find a plain old P bass in technical death metal or progressive death metal. 99% of death metal bands wouldn't use a P (maybe a PJ) and the same goes for deathcore or groove metal. I can't think of a Nu Metal band that used a P bass. Most of those wouldn't use s jazz bass either. Punk, grind, and ther varied subgenres might use Ps or Jazz basses, but they get off on sounding bad, so that makes sense.

Meanwhile doom and stoner metal use P basses all the time, but that's because speed and articulation don't matter to them. The flabby sound of a P is what they want, and the mid focused tone works well with fuzz.

Here's the thing: TB's knowledge of musical genres is about as deep as a wading pool. Y'all don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

 

[JimmyM]

It's not at all. Because a P bass is physically incapable of making certain tones, don't sound good at those tunings played fast, and 6 string versions don't exist without a custom build. Even 5 strings are very rare.
You will never find a plain old P bass in technical death metal or progressive death metal. 99% of death metal bands wouldn't use a P (maybe a PJ) and the same goes for deathcore or groove metal. I can't think of a Nu Metal band that used a P bass. Most of those wouldn't use s jazz bass either. Punk, grind, and ther varied subgenres might use Ps or Jazz basses, but they get off on sounding bad, so that makes sense.

Meanwhile doom and stoner metal use P basses all the time, but that's because speed and articulation don't matter to them. The flabby sound of a P is what they want, and the mid focused tone works well with fuzz.

Here's the thing: TB's knowledge of musical genres is about as deep as a wading pool. Y'all don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

And you call yourself Socialleper? That makes no sense at all to me.

Ok, so when I get a call from Bucket O' Blood or Gorgamothadeius, I'll bear that in mind. Thanks.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Here's the thing: TB's knowledge of musical genres is about as deep as a wading pool. Y'all don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

Here's the thing, maybe I just don't give a **** if someone is playing a passive P or an active Ibanez with pointy horns. And speaking of not knowing anywhere as much as you think it really doesn't matter that much what anyone is playing.

 

[Bassmike62]

Wether we believe or not Leo got it exactly right the first time is up to each of us (same for liking Fenders or not), but one thing is undeniable: he steered the bassworld in a new and wonderful direction. In that sense, he did get it right.

 

[Bikeguy57]

Seven pages?...Again?...He's a TROLL guys!

 

[ToneMonkey]

Not so sure about that last part about pickup placement. I'd wager that was very intentional. I believe he had a device to where he could "slide" the pickups up and down between the neck and bridge to find the sweet spots for each location.
I doubt very much it was just for looks.

Nope. He did not.

 

[BadSanta1281]

Y'all don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

Good thing you showed up to straighten everyone out.

 

[socialleper]

Here's the thing, maybe I just don't give a **** if someone is playing a passive P or an active Ibanez with pointy horns. And speaking of not knowing anywhere as much as you think it really doesn't matter that much what anyone is playing.

Your right, it doesn't. Although you seem to have invented a bass out of thin air to prove some kind of snobbish point as an assumption.
I was responding to someone that was talking out of his element and I was setting him straight. You use the right tool for the job. And the right tool isn't always a P bass or a Fender. That's why other basses exist. It's not because they are "pointy" it's because they sound right in the mix or have physical attributes for a style of play.

 

[socialleper]

Good thing you showed up to straighten everyone out.

Someone had to.

 

[socialleper]

And you call yourself Socialleper? That makes no sense at all to me.

Ok, so when I get a call from Bucket O' Blood or Gorgamothadeius, I'll bear that in mind. Thanks.

And there is that TB snobbery again.
Thanks for proving my point.

 

[beatdatthang]

Not to be disrespectful because lots of people love them, but he Leo didn't get it exactly right the first time. The '51 P bass had design flaws that were later fixed - slab body, noisy single coil pickup, 2 intonation saddles, etc.

For those of us who don't worship at the shrine of Leo, I think there's a lot more than that he didn't get right, but that's my opinion.

 

[FRoss6788]

Nope. He did not.

I believe you're incorrect.

He had a neck mounted to a board strung up and could slide wired up pickups under the strings to test for the best location.

 

[FRoss6788]

It's not at all. Because a P bass is physically incapable of making certain tones, don't sound good at those tunings played fast, and 6 string versions don't exist without a custom build. Even 5 strings are very rare.
You will never find a plain old P bass in technical death metal or progressive death metal. 99% of death metal bands wouldn't use a P (maybe a PJ) and the same goes for deathcore or groove metal. I can't think of a Nu Metal band that used a P bass. Most of those wouldn't use s jazz bass either. Punk, grind, and ther varied subgenres might use Ps or Jazz basses, but they get off on sounding bad, so that makes sense.

Meanwhile doom and stoner metal use P basses all the time, but that's because speed and articulation don't matter to them. The flabby sound of a P is what they want, and the mid focused tone works well with fuzz.

Here's the thing: TB's knowledge of musical genres is about as deep as a wading pool. Y'all don't know anywhere near as much as you think you do.

I thought Rex plays groove metal, he uses a P bass, in the studio...

 

[FRoss6788]

Leo ? Who's Leo? Rob Elrick got it right.

View attachment 5191951

Rob is a master, borrowing from Leo.

Leo did all the the math, the rest is just riffing on the original.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

The Duomo has the honor of being the first architectual dome in the post ancient world.
Does that mean current domes copy the exact architectural maths used on The Duomo?
Nope.
But it was a starting point for other architects to emulate and build upon.

According to my late luthier friend Gary Emmons, Leos vision was replaceable necks where the old neck could be yanked and a new one could be easily and quickly slapped on.
I don't know if that's 100%, but I bet Leo would find it quizzical the "Pre CBS" religion which has developed in his stead.
I think he'd really laugh at a dude who insisted on spending $1000 to rehab a neck because it was a Leo Era neck.

 

[2saddleslab]

Not to be disrespectful because lots of people love them, but he Leo didn't get it exactly right the first time. The '51 P bass had design flaws that were later fixed - slab body, noisy single coil pickup, 2 intonation saddles, etc.

Thems fightin' words!

 

[Nebadon2000]

Thems fightin' words!

I was thinking of getting a AV II 54P but it is a 2saddleslab Bass design[best sounding P tone I have heard in a while]

Maybe with Leo '3rd times the charm'[just bought one]

 

[TN WOODMAN]

There aren't that many ppl out there who actually say that "Leo got it right the first time." That's a talkbass thing.

Me personally, I've never gelled with most fender bases. Their guitars are a different story but the basses don't work for me, so I'd say that Leo didn't get it right at all… but I'd never say that amongst the crowd here cuz I'd likely be excommunicated.

Actually it's not just TB. I was getting notary work done @ my bank & the young man doing it brought up in conversation music & guitars. He asked did I play & what did I play. He was maybe 25 & just bought a Dave Grohl sig Gibson. First words were I play it & Ibanez but Leo Fender really got it right the first time.

 

[5StringBlues]

e-peens at 20 paces!