What would you think about....

[jmattbassplaya]

I wasnt neccesaily attacking athiests, to each there own. What I meant was let the kids be kids and they'll figure out the truth about santa and the easter bunny and the rest soon enough. Its not kids putting up the alleged billboard its the grown ups. Get my point now ?

I understand what you're saying and I even agree with it - kids should be allowed to be kids for a few years, be imaginative, and just have fun because life becomes serious far too quickly for most of us.

My issue, as Unrepresented somewhat shows, is the idea that only an atheist would want to put up such a billboard, which is what I got out of your initial post.

 

[bluesblaster]

I just read the OP and you are correct, it wasnt athiests putting up these billboards, my apologies. I myself am not particularlly religous either but it does bother me a bit when I hear about all this political correctness like calling christmas trees a holiday bush and all that BS, first of all, an arborist would correct them to that point... a tree is a tree and a bush is a bush. Second and most importantly... why is it that some people feel compelled to take all the fun out of the world, they must be dreadfully dule human beings.

 

[fingerbun]

What part of lying to your children about old foreign men who sneak into your house at night dependent on their behavior seems like it is meant to bring them pleasure?

Just thinking objectively.

Mate....what a grinch!!!!! And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Hey Mr 4-year-old, if you are good Santa will come and bring you that new bike.

Hey Mr 24-year-old, that is a great song. I think it's gonna make you famous so you can quit your day job and be a famous bass player.

We all need dreams, mate.

 

[Unrepresented]

Mate....what a grinch!!!!! And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Hey Mr 4-year-old, if you are good Santa will come and bring you that new bike.

Hey Mr 24-year-old, that is a great song. I think it's gonna make you famous so you can quit your day job and be a famous bass player.

We all need dreams, mate.

Why not tangible, reality based dreams? Why bother inventing characters, especially knowing that your children will someday find out you've intentionally misled them?

 

[sandmangeck]

Why not tangible, reality based dreams? Why bother inventing characters, especially knowing that your children will someday find out you've intentionally misled them?

Do you have any children? Did you celebrate christmas as a child? Who stole your dreams?

 

[Sav'nBass]

I'd think it was stupid and a waste of money.

 

[notverygood]

Why not tangible, reality based dreams? Why bother inventing characters, especially knowing that your children will someday find out you've intentionally misled them?

Because they are not robots. Reality doesn't inspire very often.
Because I want my kids to have that small window of magic and I hope to see that small window of magic happen to my grandchildren.
Why not give your kids "the full reality" and explain to them how those toys were made in sweatshops? A rousing conversation about reality over the christmas ham. It's not that kids can't handle reality or truth, it's the fact that they don't need to. Plenty of time for that when they hit jr high into high school. i would argue that this idea of total honesty and reality would do more harm than good in the long run. I think a white lie about Santa or any storybook character between the ages of 0-8 is helpful to a childs imagination and sense of wonder.

 

[Khronic]

Is this really an issue for anyone? I guess all I have to do is look at the number of responses to answer my own question. How unfortunate.

 

[Lonesomedave]

HO HO HO

Bender, you have been VERY bad this year.

 

[Unrepresented]

Do you have any children? Did you celebrate christmas as a child? Who stole your dreams?

No children of my own yet. Yes, we celebrated Christmas growing up, and while some of my dreams have been stolen (we can't all pilot X-wing fighters) I still have a few left.

Because they are not robots. Reality doesn't inspire very often.
Because I want my kids to have that small window of magic and I hope to see that small window of magic happen to my grandchildren.
Why not give your kids "the full reality" and explain to them how those toys were made in sweatshops? A rousing conversation about reality over the christmas ham. It's not that kids can't handle reality or truth, it's the fact that they don't need to. Plenty of time for that when they hit jr high into high school. i would argue that this idea of total honesty and reality would do more harm than good in the long run. I think a white lie about Santa or any storybook character between the ages of 0-8 is helpful to a childs imagination and sense of wonder.

I'm inspired by reality all the time: amazing songs and performances in music, incredible athletes in sports, people who can turn a clever phrase, or do good deeds, great creatures and civilizations from the past, designs by both people and nature that capture the eye, there's no end to things that can immerse me in a feeling of wonder, why would we have to resort to making things up? If you're having to escape reality, you're either looking in the wrong places or you may want to change your mindset.

 

[fingerbun]

Why not tangible, reality based dreams? Why bother inventing characters, especially knowing that your children will someday find out you've intentionally misled them?

Not sure when you last played with a small child but they have rich imagination as part of play. The notion of grounding that in reality would be boring to them. In fact they might even be incapable of it. Dunno.

My kids are adults now, and as far as I can see the Santa game has been a good thing for them as it was for me. I watch my two eldest play the game with my grand kids. No sign that they see it as anything other than positive. I think back to Christmases as a child when I still believed that Santa was a real person, and a bit later when I helped keep the game going for the sake of my younger brother and cousins. Overwhelmingly positive to me.

Dad's gone now and Mum's old and frail. My Santa memories are a positive memory about them. The man Santa may not be real but the notion of giving is very real and the thought that my parents had so much pleasure making happy Christmases for me, and the happiness the game brought my kids, are positive.

Of course all this is based on my life experience. I guess yours is different.

 

[EBodious]

Why not tangible, reality based dreams? Why bother inventing characters, especially knowing that your children will someday find out you've intentionally misled them?

the fact that mystery, magic, and super-natural folk heroes have played a fundamental role in all human societies suggests to me that it is an important part of our psychological make up. i think most people like a good story. and a part of what makes a 'good' story is knowing that the facts don't add up but still enjoying being swept away, IMHO.

there are some things (intangible things) whose understanding is best found (IMO) through 'tricking' the brain. that is what 'real' magic (illusions) is all about as well as poetry and song-writing and the like. so-called 'ah-ha' moments have to come from within you, but are inspired (or encouraged) by the fertile ground created thru story.

consider that 'santa' is a representation of a concept of gift giving (there is sociological work done just on the concept of gifts and what it means in different societies and what it says about human psychology, fascinating stuff). it can be a way to teach kids about giving. it can, of course, also be used as a means for behavior control and/or indoctrination into modern consumer culture but it doesn't have to go there. i guess it depends on how you choose to do it and what else you do the rest of the year as a parent.

either way, santa is a personification of an idea. he is an avatar. i am not really a beer label and santa is not really an elf from the north pole (btw, the red suit was added by coca-cola in the '20's).

 

[fingerbun]

No children of my own yet. Yes, we celebrated Christmas growing up, and while some of my dreams have been stolen (we can't all pilot X-wing fighters) I still have a few left.

I'm inspired by reality all the time: amazing songs and performances in music, incredible athletes in sports, people who can turn a clever phrase, or do good deeds, great creatures and civilizations from the past, designs by both people and nature that capture the eye, there's no end to things that can immerse me in a feeling of wonder, why would we have to resort to making things up? If you're having to escape reality, you're either looking in the wrong places or you may want to change your mindset.

Hang out with a four year old for a while. They don't think like that. To the extend that you don't get how they think, your own posts are not grounded in reality.

 

[fingerbun]

the fact that mystery, magic, and super-natural folk heroes have played a fundamental role in all human societies suggests to me that it is an important part of our psychological make up. i think most people like a good story. and a part of what makes a 'good' story is knowing that the facts don't add up but still enjoying being swept away, IMHO.

there are some things (intangible things) whose understanding is best found (IMO) through 'tricking' the brain. that is what 'real' magic (illusions) is all about as well as poetry and song-writing and the like. so-called 'ah-ha' moments have to come from within you, but are inspired (or encouraged) by the fertile ground created thru story.

consider that 'santa' is a representation of a concept of gift giving (there is sociological work done just on the concept of gifts and what it means in different societies and what it says about human psychology, fascinating stuff). it can be a way to teach kids about giving. it can, of course, also be used as a means for behavior control and/or indoctrination into modern consumer culture but it doesn't have to go there. i guess it depends on how you choose to do it and what else you do the rest of the year as a parent.

either way, santa is a personification of an idea. he is an avatar. i am not really a beer label and santa is not really an elf from the north pole (btw, the red suit was added by coca-cola in the '20's).

Great post.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Hang out with a four year old for a while. They don't think like that. To the extend that you don't get how they think, your own posts are not grounded in reality.

+1

 

[electracoyote]

the fact that mystery, magic, and super-natural folk heroes have played a fundamental role in all human societies suggests to me that it is an important part of our psychological make up. i think most people like a good story. and a part of what makes a 'good' story is knowing that the facts don't add up but still enjoying being swept away, IMHO.

there are some things (intangible things) whose understanding is best found (IMO) through 'tricking' the brain. that is what 'real' magic (illusions) is all about as well as poetry and song-writing and the like. so-called 'ah-ha' moments have to come from within you, but are inspired (or encouraged) by the fertile ground created thru story.

consider that 'santa' is a representation of a concept of gift giving (there is sociological work done just on the concept of gifts and what it means in different societies and what it says about human psychology, fascinating stuff). it can be a way to teach kids about giving. it can, of course, also be used as a means for behavior control and/or indoctrination into modern consumer culture but it doesn't have to go there. i guess it depends on how you choose to do it and what else you do the rest of the year as a parent.

either way, santa is a personification of an idea. he is an avatar. i am not really a beer label and santa is not really an elf from the north pole (btw, the red suit was added by coca-cola in the '20's).

Good post. It's really kind of common sense when you think about it. And it's a shame some people don't get it.

I guess some folks feel it's their duty to play the spoiler. It must give then some sick sense of self-importance or self-worth in a life void of more productive ways of achieving those goals.

 

[MJ5150]

The wife and I chose not to follow the fictional story of Santa to teach our children the value and rewards of giving to others. Our motives definitely were not some sick way to feel important or achieve self worth. You can certainly feel how you want about it, but that last paragraph is quite vindictive the way I read it.

-Mike

 

[Unrepresented]

Not sure when you last played with a small child but they have rich imagination as part of play. The notion of grounding that in reality would be boring to them. In fact they might even be incapable of it. Dunno.

My kids are adults now, and as far as I can see the Santa game has been a good thing for them as it was for me. I watch my two eldest play the game with my grand kids. No sign that they see it as anything other than positive. I think back to Christmases as a child when I still believed that Santa was a real person, and a bit later when I helped keep the game going for the sake of my younger brother and cousins. Overwhelmingly positive to me.

Dad's gone now and Mum's old and frail. My Santa memories are a positive memory about them. The man Santa may not be real but the notion of giving is very real and the thought that my parents had so much pleasure making happy Christmases for me, and the happiness the game brought my kids, are positive.

Of course all this is based on my life experience. I guess yours is different.

I don't harbor any negative thoughts about Christmas or about Santa Claus, but honestly, I don't recall ever believing Christmas was anything other than an exchange of gifts by family and friends. Christmas was an exciting morning, but I knew who to thank for that excitement and gifts, regardless of the mythology.

the fact that mystery, magic, and super-natural folk heroes have played a fundamental role in all human societies suggests to me that it is an important part of our psychological make up. i think most people like a good story. and a part of what makes a 'good' story is knowing that the facts don't add up but still enjoying being swept away, IMHO.

there are some things (intangible things) whose understanding is best found (IMO) through 'tricking' the brain. that is what 'real' magic (illusions) is all about as well as poetry and song-writing and the like. so-called 'ah-ha' moments have to come from within you, but are inspired (or encouraged) by the fertile ground created thru story.

consider that 'santa' is a representation of a concept of gift giving (there is sociological work done just on the concept of gifts and what it means in different societies and what it says about human psychology, fascinating stuff). it can be a way to teach kids about giving. it can, of course, also be used as a means for behavior control and/or indoctrination into modern consumer culture but it doesn't have to go there. i guess it depends on how you choose to do it and what else you do the rest of the year as a parent.

either way, santa is a personification of an idea. he is an avatar. i am not really a beer label and santa is not really an elf from the north pole (btw, the red suit was added by coca-cola in the '20's).

While an avatar for generosity is fine, I don't think that's any more important to prop up than Ronald McDonald being the avatar of convenient, low priced restaurants.

Hang out with a four year old for a while. They don't think like that. To the extend that you don't get how they think, your own posts are not grounded in reality.

I'm fairly certain I've spent more of my life with more four year old children than anyone else on this board. Not trying to call myself an expert on child rearing or psychology, but I've got a good share of hours in being surrounded by toddlers.

Good post. It's really kind of common sense when you think about it. And it's a shame some people don't get it.

I guess some folks feel it's their duty to play the spoiler. It must give then some sick sense of self-importance or self-worth in a life void of more productive ways of achieving those goals.

I don't have any interest in ruining children's fantasies, but avoiding misleading them in the first place would no doubt prevent it eventually happening.

 

[bassinplace]

I don't harbor any negative thoughts about Christmas or about Santa Claus, but honestly, I don't recall ever believing Christmas was anything other than an exchange of gifts by family and friends. Christmas was an exciting morning, but I knew who to thank for that excitement and gifts, regardless of the mythology.

While an avatar for generosity is fine, I don't think that's any more important to prop up than Ronald McDonald being the avatar of convenient, low priced restaurants.

I'm fairly certain I've spent more of my life with more four year old children than anyone else on this board. Not trying to call myself an expert on child rearing or psychology, but I've got a good share of hours in being surrounded by toddlers.

I don't have any interest in ruining children's fantasies, but avoiding misleading them in the first place would no doubt prevent it eventually happening.

Like your band! Cool stuff! On topic, I don't think there's any reason to tell children about sweat shops anymore than there is to tell them that santa is real. But they're your kids folks, it's your call. As long as they're loved and cared for, I think that's the point.

 

[Unrepresented]

Like your band! Cool stuff!

Thanks.

On topic, I don't think there's any reason to tell children about sweat shops anymore than there is to tell them that santa is real. But they're your kids folks, it's your call. As long as they're loved and cared for, I think that's the point.

I agree.

This discussion feels like it's being broken down into either:

a) you're trying to ruin Santa for everyone

b) you're trying to give kids a wonderful memory

I'm much more of the choice c) your kids will have happy memories if treated well even without convincing them that Santa is real. It's more about [del]bribing them with toys[/del] spending time with family and friends than anything.