What's so special about John Entwistle?

[cbenedict]

Better than most bassists with regard to tone, rhythm and getting out front in the mix. You hear it much more in live recordings.

I meant better than most bassists BEFORE him. A 20 year old bassist might not get it.

 

[stevieg]

It certainly is fair. You are on a forum putting down the abilities of fellow musicians. You should be able to show that you are worthy of critiquing others which you have not ever done.
"Ghosting" is where you disappear from a conversation which is what you did in your one and only thread here on Talkbass.

I am truly sorry, I don't remember my "one and only thread". Further if you read my posts, you'll note that I am not putting anyone down, as you put it. I am merely agreeing with the original poster who stated that he does not understand why Mr. Entwhistle has been placed in such high regard. I strongly agree with this statement.

S

 

[JimmyM]

It certainly is fair. You are on a forum putting down the abilities of fellow musicians. You should be able to show that you are worthy of critiquing others which you have not ever done.
"Ghosting" is where you disappear from a conversation which is what you did in your one and only thread here on Talkbass.

Ghosting aside (on here, we call it "Lownering" in honor of a gal named Lowner who made a habit of ghosting threads), I don't believe that anyone should have to prove their worthiness as a musician to have an opinion on other musicians, much in the same way that even though I could never direct a movie with state-of-the-art special effects, I still think the entire Star Wars movie series is crap. What we like is what we like, and vice versa.

 

[stevieg]

Ghosting aside (on here, we call it "Lownering" in honor of a gal named Lowner who made a habit of ghosting threads), I don't believe that anyone should have to prove their worthiness as a musician to have an opinion on other musicians, much in the same way that even though I could never direct a movie with state-of-the-art special effects, I still think the entire Star Wars movie series is crap. What we like is what we like, and vice versa.

JimmyM, my eternal thanks for expressing it better than I could.

S

 

[stevieg]

I see no need to continue this.

We disagree. End of discussion.

S

 

[NZBassman]

I've not read all the posts in this thread, but I suggest the OP has a listen to 'the Real Me' - I think there is one clip with the isolated bass line on youtube

 

[MG Wolf]

Work on one song does not equal a lifetime of hero worship.

Scott LaFaro could easily run rings around Entwhistle. Since LaFaro played upright that might not be a fair comparison. So, I submit Jack Casady who, in my opinion completely rewrote the electric bass vocabulary.

stevieg

You care to joust with me Good Knight?

"The Real Me" is just ONE example of many WHO songs that revolutionized the role of bass guitar in R&R...you can read thru this thread for examples of many others.

And he laid his parts down without staring at his fretboard.

I'm just sayin'.

 

[Peteyboy]

Nobody's arguing that Wyman is one of the greatest bassists who ever lived. At best, you'll get arguments that he was a lot better than folks gave him credit. Meanwhile, he was the bassist for one of the most popular bands in the world, has an estimated net worth of $80 million, lives in a castle, and spends his time playing with a metal detector looking for buried treasure and archaeological finds.

It's mainly just a helpful benchmark to establish a relative spectrum of where a "British Invasion" - era bassist could be. Wyman and Entwistle were peers. Smack-talk Wyman's ability around here and someone invariably crops up to tell you how wealthy he is or how talented his friends are. No one posts footage of him doing anything interesting - it doesnt exist. But with John you have many documented examples of him doing all manner of innovative things. I know the OP didn't ask about Bill Wyman, but I'm always happy to provide some relative perspective

 

[JimmyM]

It's mainly just a helpful benchmark to establish a relative spectrum of where a "British Invasion" - era bassist could be. Wyman and Entwistle were peers. Smack-talk Wyman's ability around here and someone invariably crops up to tell you how wealthy he is or how talented his friends are. No one posts footage of him doing anything interesting - it doesnt exist. But with John you have many documented examples of him doing all manner of innovative things. I know the OP didn't ask about Bill Wyman, but I'm always happy to provide some relative perspective

And so is Wyman. In the end, only musicians care about innovative playing, and even many of them don't care.

 

[Quasar Wave]

I'm not the biggest rock fan out there, but I can see why people like John Paul Jones, John Deacon, Geezer Butler and the likes.

I can even see why people like Cliff Burton, although I think he's seriously overrated.

But I don't understand why John Entwistle is so highly regarded here on TalkBass and in the media. I listened to The Who's top songs on Spotify and watched a few videos on YouTube. Sure, he has that sort of tapping technique and a few fills on "My Generation," but is that it? I guess he did come before Jones et al., making him a pioneer?

I'm being serious here. I'm not trolling. What am I missing?

This was clearly posted on April 1st!
I'm certain that FunkyYeti is a huge Entwistle fan and is just trying to be funny!

 

[Tall Low End]

I'm not the biggest rock fan out there, but I can see why people like John Paul Jones, John Deacon, Geezer Butler and the likes.

I can even see why people like Cliff Burton, although I think he's seriously overrated.

But I don't understand why John Entwistle is so highly regarded here on TalkBass and in the media. I listened to The Who's top songs on Spotify and watched a few videos on YouTube. Sure, he has that sort of tapping technique and a few fills on "My Generation," but is that it? I guess he did come before Jones et al., making him a pioneer?

I'm being serious here. I'm not trolling. What am I missing?

I, too, have never gotten on the Entwistle train. He is a very fine player, but not in any way a significant innovator, at least in my opinion. True innovators in rock and pop bass would include Paul McCartney and Chris Squire to name a couple.

 

[JR Bass 62]

John was different kind of player for sure!! But so good!! He also worked with I believe Roto Sound on development of first round wound strings... Thank You for the top end Mr. John!! He was constantly out of the $$ Money end of the neck, But that's what we loved!!
My Fav!!!

 

[s_wood]

Sorry mate you are wrong, he started using TB's in the studio from Quadrophenia onwards. Who's Next was his famous Frankenstein P Bass though he did use TB's live around the time of Lifehouse where he used a TB at the Old Vic shows that was part of the Lifehouse project.

Man, this is good stuff! Entwistle is one of my tone heros, and I have been chasing his tones for years.

I wonder if maybe you are both right about this. There's no question that JE was using Thunderbirds during the Old Vic shows. There are plenty of pictures floating around that prove it, like these:

Those shows took place in February, March and April of 1971. The recording of what started as the Lifehouse project and became Who's Next took place over multiple sessions in 3 different studios in two different countries in March, April, May and June of 1971. "Won't Get Fooled Again" was one of the first tracks recorded. It's entirely possible that he used both the Frankenstein P and his first T-Birds over that period of time, as he gradually changed over from the P to the T-Bird. JE usually recorded with whatever basses he was using live, and there's no doubt that he had switched to the T-Bird for live work before "Who's Next" was finished. FWIW, my ears hear both basses on Who's Next. (And, FWIW, I own a '64 T-Bird and a '66 Precision - not a slab, though). For instance, "Won't Get Fooled Again" sounds to me like a P bass, but "Behind Blue Eyes" (which, incidentally, was one of the last songs recorded) sure sounds like a T-Bird to me.

Fun to debate!

 

[bondibox]

I'm pretty late to this party, but JE was an early influence on my desire to play bass. For me, he was the epitome of the round-wound sound.

 

[dog1]

Great video of an outstanding bass player. What kind of bass was he playing? I'm not familiar with it.

 

[Doner Designs]

Maybe the most influential ever. The Jaco of rock.

 

[stevieg]

You care to joust with me Good Knight?

"The Real Me" is just ONE example of many WHO songs that revolutionized the role of bass guitar in R&R...you can read thru this thread for examples of many others.

And he laid his parts down without staring at his fretboard.

I'm just sayin'.

MG Wolf,

Allow me to ask you two questions.

Have you ever listen to Scott LaFaro?

Do you agree that Jack Casady changed the entire role and sound of the electric bass? He has never been equaled.

I simply do not understand the hero worship cast on Mr. Entwhistle. A very simple statement. And as we say, De gustabus non est disputandum.

End of story.

S

 

[Peteyboy]

 

[stevieg]

By the way, who loks at his fretboard anyway?

Just wondering.
S

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

Serious chops, played bass in a different way, but most importantly, he did it all at time when people were still figuring out the potential of the electric bass guitar. See also Jamerson, Sir Paul, Jack Bruce, etc. John was also an innovator - first to use big amp stacks, first to use rounds, first bass solo on My Generation.

Granted, you can go online today and find clips of everyday people playing amazing bass lines in their bedrooms, but it's a different proposition to go back 50+ years and figure those kinds of things out on your own for the first time.

Big Johnny Twinkle started playing bass when that whole acoustic to electric transition was taking place. That period has always interested me. Not a ton of choices for instruments or equipment at the time but then again, the evolution seemed to be driven by the need to be heard.

Not sure if back then players watched others to learn new technique or see if they themselves were doing something wrong?

Look at the 50's and early 60's bands where the bass players both posed and played with their instrument necks at about the 1 o'clock position like they were still playing an upright.

The guy definitely did self-refinement when it came to his playing technique.

Something to be respected for sure!