Double Bass What's the better setup?

[musicman5string]

Setup 1:

German carved bass 100 years old with Underwood pickup going into Fishman Platinum Pro Preamp into GK MB150.


Setup 2:

Same bass with Fishman Full Circle pickup with AMT mic going into AI Coda.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

IME, usually you get what you pay for.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

A guy here in town uses an Underwood direct into a Contra. His 100 year old German bass sounds great. I heard the setup earlier in the week, and it sounded really good. You might like it.

IMO the Fishman pre sucks some life out of my tone, so I don't use it much.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I think the FC + any mic will give you a lot more versatility than an underwood and a preamp. The whole, "cheaper front firing combo vs. more expensive downward firing combo" thing is a whole other can of worms. IME, IMO, YMMV, MFC, JTTW, HTHAS, etc....

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Setup 1:

German carved bass 100 years old with Underwood pickup going into Fishman Platinum Pro Preamp into GK MB150.


Setup 2:

Same bass with Fishman Full Circle pickup with AMT mic going into AI Coda.

I'll take Setup #2 which happens to be exactly what I use and love.

 

[musicman5string]

I'll take Setup #2 which happens to be exactly what I use and love.

How would you describe the tone Bob? Is it natural and woody, with clarity and fullness? That's what I'd like to get.
I get the clarity and fullness with setup #1, but not the naturalness or woodyness.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

How would you describe the tone Bob? Is it natural and woody, with clarity and fullness? That's what I'd like to get.

Accurate would be the word I would use. If I were to start with the master volume control on zero and gradually increase the volume, I have to get near the point of feedback on the AMT mic (which is pretty loud) before it starts to lose the natural unamplified tonal properties. At that point, the mic gets turned down or off and the piezo sound takes over. Until it reaches that point, it really is (please excuse this grossly over used, and often exaggerated description) "my bass but louder". YMMV, but it works great for me.

 

[bolo]

musicman5string, what is your typical jazz gig like?

Really noisy bars (i.e. crowd noise), or places where people are actually listening to you?

Boisterous drummers?

Guitar players?

Do the bartenders nod "Okay," at you but then forget to shut the Musak off when it's time for you to start a set?

I love the way my p/u and AMT sound going thru my Series I Contra - at home. Accurate, natural, nicely diffused, just like Bob B. said. Awesome.

But on certain gigs, I just can't hear it well enough, and neither can my bandmates. The gear sounds great. But sadly the environment just covers it all up.

I could be all wet, but IMO setup #2 would get you the sound you want - as long as the gigs you do will allow it to be heard the way you want. I think the type of gigs and rooms you work in are a big part of which setup will ultimately work "better."

 

[Bob Branstetter]

I love the way my p/u and AMT sound going thru my Series I Contra - at home. Accurate, natural, just like Bob B. said. Awesome.

But on certain gigs, I just can't hear it well enough, and neither can my bandmates. The gear sounds great. But sadly the environment just covers it all up.

I owned a Series I Contra before I got my Series III Coda. Because of the huge increase in power in the Series III, it really isn't a fair comparison. On those rare jobs where the Coda isn't loud enough, I bring along an Acme B1 extension cabinet. With the extension speaker, I can't imagine a job where I can't cut through and also hear myself.

 

[jsbarber]

Bob Magnusson uses the Underwood into an AI for pizzicato. He too has an old german bass. He sounds great, but is also a phenomenal player. I wouldn't characterize his sound as "like acoustic only louder". His sound really cuts through, and is never at all muddy or unclear in any register. Last time I saw him he was using Spirocore Weiches (G/D) & Mittels (A/E).

Jim

ps. I was told by Don Underwood that if the input impedance on your amp is 1 Megaohm or greater you don't need a preamp.

A guy here in town uses an Underwood direct into a Contra. His 100 year old German bass sounds great. I heard the setup earlier in the week, and it sounded really good. You might like it.

IMO the Fishman pre sucks some life out of my tone, so I don't use it much.

 

[bolo]

I owned a Series I Contra before I got my Series III Coda. Because of the huge increase in power in the Series III, it really isn't a fair comparison. On those rare jobs where the Coda isn't loud enough, I bring along an Acme B1 extension cabinet. With the extension speaker, I can't imagine a job where I can't cut through and also hear myself.

Yep, fair enough Bob. Good point. There is a significant increase in power, and a general "tightening" of the low end from what I understand as you go from the AI Series I to II to III. I'm sure you get an excellent sound out of your gear.

One other advantage the newer AI models have is the high pass filter, which my older Contra does not. I usually cut the Bass EQ control to 9:00, but I reckon that's not exactly the same as the HPF feature.

I have used a Series I Contra paired with their EX extension cab (also Series I), and although it was definitely a bigger sound, it was how shall I say essentially more of the same, and it still did not always punch through enough for some of my noisier gigs. Your front-firing Acme probably adds a slightly different dimension as an extension cab.

FWIW, recently I've discovered that my reliable ol' Contra sounds very, very nice in quieter settings sitting up on a chair.

The setup that works best for me in each of my gigging situations just really seems to depend the most on the room, the other musicians, and overall volume level. That's kind of why I was curious what type of gigs mm5string does.

 

[musicman5string]

musicman5string, what is your typical jazz gig like?

Really noisy bars (i.e. crowd noise), or places where people are actually listening to you?

Boisterous drummers?

Guitar players?

Do the bartenders nod "Okay," at you but then forget to shut the Musak off when it's time for you to start a set?

I love the way my p/u and AMT sound going thru my Series I Contra - at home. Accurate, natural, nicely diffused, just like Bob B. said. Awesome.

But on certain gigs, I just can't hear it well enough, and neither can my bandmates. The gear sounds great. But sadly the environment just covers it all up.

I could be all wet, but IMO setup #2 would get you the sound you want - as long as the gigs you do will allow it to be heard the way you want. I think the type of gigs and rooms you work in are a big part of which setup will ultimately work "better."

Hmmm......hard to answer; I do alot of gigs without drummers, and I never have to turn the GK volume past 10 o clock. Therefore, I guess most gigs are on the "quieter" side. Then again, whenever I play at certain places in NY, such as the 55 Bar with a loud drummer, the GK goes to about 12 o clock, which is where the tone starts to be mostly coming from the amp, and that's the problem, because to me, the GK sounds fine at low volumes and horrible louder.
Now, I'm not necessarily looking for a much louder amp, because the GK has always had enough for me. I do however want something that is more "accurate" as Bob described, because the GK is anything but that. Also, the Underwood isn't bad, but everyone seems to rave about the FC especially at louder volumes. The louder you turn up, the less "nice" the Underwood is.
I guess to summarize I'd say:
I want something "more pleasing" sounding and am not as worried about volume.

 

[bolo]

Now, I'm not necessarily looking for a much louder amp, because the GK has always had enough for me. I do however want something that is more "accurate" as Bob described, because the GK is anything but that. Also, the Underwood isn't bad, but everyone seems to rave about the FC especially at louder volumes. The louder you turn up, the less "nice" the Underwood is.
I guess to summarize I'd say:
I want something "more pleasing" sounding and am not as worried about volume.

Thanks for all the details.

I could be wrong, but based on what you said, IMO setup #2 would get you closer to what you described for all but your loudest gigs. More natural, woody, hi-fi, accurate, etc., etc.

I would vote setup #2.

 

[bolo]

Footnote: And if that doesn't work, try setup #3. Bob B. alluded to this already w/ when he mentioned his extension cab.