What's the problem with 24-fret basses?

[Adam Wright]

I like 24fret basses. The only problem I see with them is that very few builders actually build them where the 24th fret is accessible.

 

[matthewbrown]

I believe the guitarists in the bands you mention were making the same $$...

 

[packhowitzer]

I am a fan of 35" scale length on 5 strings. As far as I know, that scale pretty much guarantees 24 frets. I typically don't go past the 19th fret and even then, it's usually just to hit a high octave at the end of a verse before dropping into a chorus.

 

[brianrost]

The old saying "theres no money above the 5th fret" which I've found to be true.

You need the 6th fret to get a Db

 

[InhumanResource]

I don't have a problem with 2-octave necks but I do have a problem with some implementations. For example, my Warwick Corvette has a 2-octave neck, but the lower cutaway/horn design makes access above 21 pretty much impossible without drastic changes in hand position...
View attachment 3464544

You don't play thumb position on electric? Seems appropriate on a Warwick...

Nyuk nyuk nyuk

 

[InhumanResource]

I'm going to call this fake news. I've never seen this on TB.

Maybe it's just an alternative fact

 

[TolerancEJ]

...you shouldn't care or be bothered by what other people think about it.

Agreed. Much better if people follow this motto. Your instrument forms your identity. A purchase is ultimately your decision & other peoples' opinions should be the furthest from your mind.

Unless someone else starts paying for my gear, I'll play whatever I want and I extend the same courtesy to others. If there are no technical hiccups and it sounds the way you want, that's all that matters.

 

[RVRSCO]

I like them! In fact I had. 27 fret Mayones for a while! It was awesome!

 

[buldog5151bass]

The only song I've ever played where I go up there is Birdland, and I don't need frets for that.

 

[lfmn16]

Maybe it's just an alternative fact

A true lie.

 

[Clark W]

Hmmm, never seen anyone complain here about 24 frets before. Have seen someone complain that a bass they wanted didn't come with 24 frets though. But that's been the extent of it. And it wasn't a put down of any other number of frets, they just liked a certain bass and wished it came with 24 frets.

Myself, personally, I'm currently swapping back and forth between two basses that have 24 and 20 frets. Really makes no difference to me what the number of frets are, I just play 'em. It's not like I'm counting frets while I'm playing. As a matter of fact, if I were to go buy a new bass, or a used bass, fret count wouldn't even be on the radar of things I was looking for in a bass to buy. Last two basses I bought I never thought about the fret count either and one was a 24, the other a 20. It's not like I'm about to go all Billy Sheehan on 'em. And if I did, well the pickups just became frets too.

 

[matante]

Not really. It doesn't mean literally that anything above the 5th fret is useless. What it means is, the money for bassists in bands are guys who actually play BASS, not the guys who think they are guitarists and go noodling all over the place. Beatles, Zeppelin, U2, Pink Floyd, AC/DC....the guys who were most successful and made tens of millions did it by holding down the bottom end, not trying to solo and wow everyone like they are Jaco.

Show up to most auditions with a 6 string, 24 fret bass and start noodling away and stepping on the guitar frequencies and you'll likely be shown the door within minutes. So that phrase is basically saying know your role and hold down the bottom end, that's where the money is. If you want to be Jaco or Wooten, go solo or start your own jazz fusion group and make peanuts.

You're right, but it's still a bad saying because it's inaccurate and a lot of people will (and do) take it literally. Plenty of basslines that simply hold down the low end are played up to the 12th fret. If you say something figuratively it should be obvious that it's to be taken that way, otherwise it's not a good saying.

 

[Dincrest]

I am a fan of 35" scale length on 5 strings. As far as I know, that scale pretty much guarantees 24 frets. I typically don't go past the 19th fret and even then, it's usually just to hit a high octave at the end of a verse before dropping into a chorus.

One exception I can think of is the Zon Mosaic Standard 5-string I once had. 35" scale and a 22 fret neck. Really good bass.

 

[40Hz]

The original internet was basic phone technology compared to what it is today. It's silly to give credit to any small group of people or to a particular generation.

Got news. Speaking at the level of gross oversimplification, you could make that argument. But it doesn’t hold water if you understand how it actually works.

The protocols and underlying technology were no different then than they are today. And although you may think it’s silly to give credit to a small group of people, the people who are professionally involved in enterprise level information technology will tell you exactly who (e.g. Vint Cerf, Bob Kahn, Tim Berners-Lee, Mark McCahill, Mark Reed Crispin et al.) was responsible for what, and when each piece of the package of technologies we think of as “the web” came out. And you can even go back before the advent of the public Internet to see the people and their technical contributions (such as Ward Christensen and Randy Suess with RBBS, Tom Jennings and Fidonet; Jeff Reeder, Jim Bergman, and Mark Hayton and RIPscip, Howard Reingold who coined the notion of “virtual communities” and “electronic villages”, etc ) who pointed the way and had a big influence on what the Internet ultimately became.

Trust me. We know who was responsible for the invention of the Internet. And what their specific contributions were. And also what generation they’re from. There’s no mystery or question there.

Regarding the differences between the Internet then vs now:

The Internet is bigger and more powerful than it originally was as more resources were deployed and more people were given access to it. But that’s a natural consequence that grows out of networking things.

For example, a fax machine by itself is useless. But link two together and they now become a useful tool. But that’s only a connection between two users. However, add a thousand more fax machines and fax technology becomes extremely useful. And with each additional fax machine, the fax network becomes exponentially more powerful - and more worth it for someone to get a fax machine.

The Internet works the same way. The more resources and users, the more powerful it becomes. But the underlying technology and protocols driving it are pretty much the same as they ever were. It’s not really that different. There’s just a whole lot more of it. The only limitation to its power is the amount of bandwidth you give it. And the only limitation to the amount of bandwidth is the amount of fiber or copper cable you want to string. Because the threshold for bandwidth is infinity. You can have as much as you decide to provide.

So it’s really no different. Bigger and faster? Sure. But the underlying tech is still the same. TalkBass’s forum software traces its technical heritage to the old dial-up bulletin board systems. Wedding a BBS to the Internet just made TB globally accessible at a very low cost for its users. But it’s still just a computer bulletin board system at heart. Biggest difference is that today we call them “forums” instead of “boards.”

Old wine in new bottles.

 

[Aloe]

I have no problem getting to 21 with normal technique on my StingRays.

neither you have with Wick, right? and if you'll want the 22nd fret, it will be possible with Wick and normal technique, but not with Ray as it has only 21?

I don't really see the problem in longer fretboard as long as it doesn't restrict your right hand. if you're able to reach 23 frets of a 24 fret board without having a hard time, on a 21-fret board, you're only able to go to 21st.

 

[Baa]

I saw someone in a thread during the last week (can't remember who or where) saying that more frets makes it harder to intonate correctly.
That's about all i've seen in "anti 24".
I have no clue if that's true or not.

 

[Dexterzol]

Jesus, I did not expect this thread to blow up like this, nor part of it to devolve into some kind of generational argument. Look, the point of the thread was to ask some people why they have a problem with 24 frets, and by extension higher register bass playing. I wasn't trying to provoke anyone, It was a simple question.

Just Google "Talkbass 24 Frets", pick a thread and you'll see some douchebag going "No money above the 5th fret", or maybe "it's a bass, not a guitar". It's just something some people do, I wanted to ask them why, that's all. IMO it's just a really limiting way to think of the instrument, and you're really just shooting yourself in the foot.

I'm not telling anyone to abandon the low end or anything, I just don't see the point in holding on to old notions.

 

[Dexterzol]

Also, who says you can't keep a low end in the upper frets? Try playing a line or 2 at the end of the E-string, the thing basically mutes itself. Got a 5 string and you can basically get an upright sound without changing a thing!

 

[Dexterzol]

Ive had 24 fret basses, I barely every used those frets, even during a solo. Then there is the old saying "theres no money above the 5th fret" which I've found to be true. Like I don't hate on an instrument with 24+ frets, ill also never seek one out

But the people who said that lived in the 1950's... why should anyone still hold that statement to any sort of value? To me it's like the little brother of the old dudes who said the only way to play bass was upright, and thought the same way about EB players. It's just so antiquated

 

[Sam Dingle]

My ideal basses have 24 frets. Why limit yourself? But also I won’t play more than 5 strings so....