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What's the problem with jeff berlin?

#181
JimmyM said:
Really? I thought it was because Phat and Jauqo have a history of busting stones on each other. Love 'em both, but I like to see them go at it. It's pretty entertaining. Thanks for winding them up a little more :D

:ninja: vs. :hyper:

BTW, I tend to believe Phat in this case because he lives there, and my wife was born there.
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Wasn't trying to wind anyone up and as far as I knew they already worked things out a while back. Just pointing out why I thought Jauqo was asking what he was asking... who else could he ask?
 
#184
http://www.jeffberlinmusic.com/bio.htm
Page Title: Jeff Berlin - Electric Bass Virtuoso


Bio

Jeff Berlin is a legend of the electric bass. Simply put, he is considered by many to be the finest electric bass player in the world. Surprisingly, he is a pioneer of slap bass when he brought this new percussive-style bass playing in 1979 to the second Bill Bruford album, “One of a Kind”, on the tune called 5G. Jeff also pioneered two handed tapping when he performed this style on Motherlode from his 1985 release of his first solo album called “Champion”. When these styles began to catch on with other bass players, Jeff stopped playing these styles.

Jeff is known as a major innovator through his incisive playing through recordings and performances for the last thirty years. Jaco Pastorius regarded Jeff as a better soloist than he was. Geddy Lee referred to Jeff as the “greatest bass player on the planet”. Marcus Miller told people that he wanted to be the “Black Jeff Berlin”.

The founder of The Players School of Music in Clearwater, Florida, Jeff has also been at the front of music education for almost 30 years. His column in Guitar Player and Bass Player magazines were the most read columns due to their controversial content of music education. He regularly puts down using electronic tuners, metronomes, handgrips, tablature, or any study method that does not include musical content. For this, the music world has polarized in two camps, either for, or against the principles that Jeff believes will make a great player out of a good one.

His numerous recording credits include albums with Bill Bruford, Yes, Allan Holdsworth, Kazumi Watanabe, and George Benson. Jeff has released six highly acclaimed solo records, Champion, Pump It!, Taking Notes, In Harmony's Way, Lumpy Jazz and Aneurythms. Jeff tours with his band that has featured Danny Gottlieb, Paul Wertico,Othello Molineaux, Randy Brecker and Richard Drexler. He also tours with BX3, a bass conglomeration that includes the great bass players Stuart Hamm and Billy Sheehan.

Jeff is performing all over the world to rave reviews. Many have said that they have never heard anyone play with Jeff’s melodic fluidity. Jeff's playing continues to influence a new generation of bass players. His teaching continues to inspire and advance players wishing to know about the language of their art. Jeff Berlin is a master.

:hmm:
 
#187
robboy said:
I have to agree that you can learn a lot from Jeff. The things that he's saying are what any good music educator would tell you. He just says them in a way that rubs people the wrong way. Moreover, people take a lot of what he says out of context and confuse the issue. He is no different then a lot of old school Jazz players that I have met. They can be brutal with their honesty. Get past the attitude and listen to what he says. He's a great musician and speaks from experience. ;)
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I would have to agree with this and many other posts that more calmly respond to Jeff's "attacks". It is like my Tae Kwon Do teacher. He ticks me off so many times but he is actually making me a stronger person, not just physically but emotionally and mentally too. I would definately agree that many of us American's are so bent on doing things the easy way that we avoid how hard one has to really work to become good at an art, such as music. I don't mean to seem Anti-American but we can be so lazy at times - "let's find the tab and quickly learn how it's being done instead of the longer more rewarding path of learning to read standard notation that displays time-value, pitch, and dynamics or - just take time to try to figure the song out on our own which develops our ear." If we do that we will have more opportunities and understand the theory better. One needs to be strong enough to blow off his idiosyncratic (is that a word?) comments and absorb what he may be trying to teach us. We will be better off if we apply that to our response to most experienced teachers regardless of their style and delivery.

I do have an opinion about the use of a metronome. I use it daily and find it to be a great tool, BUT you should not set it to click on every downbeat. Only set it to click on a partial, such as on 2 & 4 if the meter is 4/4. If you are setting it at every beat then set it at half tempo - much more challenging to play in time when it is so slow. It really makes you focus on the amount of space between the beats.
 
#189
I'll jump in here with a suprising piece of info- Jeff Berlin suggested I use a metronome... yeah, you read it right.

Jeff's stance on metronomes come from a purely academic mindset, as do most things he says. If I understand him correctly, he despises using a metronome to learn how to keep time. His argument? Time is not metronomic. How did all the great musicians of the past get good time? Most of them probably didn't have a metronome. One thing I'm learning at the Player's School (where I'm currently enrolled) is that trying to learn a piece of music while using a metronome is a death wish. In order to properly play a tune IN TIME, it is best to LEARN the song OUT OF TIME. In other words, take things slowly, however slowly you need to, and learn the song, then, once you've learned it, speed it up, continually until you can play the song in time. Internalizing time is something that a metronome cannot do. I've tried and failed many times.

Now, back to my original statement... I was playing a piece for Jeff, and my timing was good. His suggestion? Use a metronome to, in a way, act as the drummer in a band. Simply keeping the beat of the song. I learned the notes, and I had internalized the timing, so the next step was to play it, as if I were playing with other musicians.
 
#190
NicJimBass said:
I'll jump in here with a suprising piece of info- Jeff Berlin suggested I use a metronome... yeah, you read it right.

Jeff's stance on metronomes come from a purely academic mindset, as do most things he says. If I understand him correctly, he despises using a metronome to learn how to keep time. His argument? Time is not metronomic. How did all the great musicians of the past get good time? Most of them probably didn't have a metronome. One thing I'm learning at the Player's School (where I'm currently enrolled) is that trying to learn a piece of music while using a metronome is a death wish. In order to properly play a tune IN TIME, it is best to LEARN the song OUT OF TIME. In other words, take things slowly, however slowly you need to, and learn the song, then, once you've learned it, speed it up, continually until you can play the song in time. Internalizing time is something that a metronome cannot do. I've tried and failed many times.

Now, back to my original statement... I was playing a piece for Jeff, and my timing was good. His suggestion? Use a metronome to, in a way, act as the drummer in a band. Simply keeping the beat of the song. I learned the notes, and I had internalized the timing, so the next step was to play it, as if I were playing with other musicians.
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I think I understand what you are saying.

When I use a metronome or the kick drum on my BOSS ME-50B I get the tempo in my head (5 or 10 seconds) and then play off of and around the beat, touching on it just to keep, well, in time. Just like you would a drummer.

Right?

:D

Joe.
 
#191
Jeff Berlin likes wrestling? Awesome. He would be a good tagteam partner with Hacksaw Jim Duggan. That would rule. Or, he could have been the Iron Sheik's manager. No wait, Larry Hartke would be better for that role. :hiding:

Low Main said:
There are two Jeff Berlins. (At least two, maybe more).

If you like the brilliant, relaxed, funny, personable, knowledgeable, innovative world class player enough to welcome him into your bass life, you have to also accept the irascible, overbearing, combative professional wrestling aficionado along for the ride.

Can't have one without the other.

The folks in the long white coats are using the Jeff Berlin case study as a warm-up for a similar but more extreme multiple personality case study: Coach Bob Knight.
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#193
If you were to take lessons or learn any other instrument. I don't know lets say violin or trombone or something. You will learn to read music, learn to play in time without a metronome, and will learn theory and not patterns. Why would this style of teaching/learning not carry over to the electric bass? In church I play with musicians that look down on music education in general. I believe it was Jeff Berlin who said this, and this is obviously a direct quote. Reading is not required to speak the english language however you can tell if somebody can not read two seconds into what they say, the same goes for musicians. I feel like he hit the nail squarely on the head with that one.
 
#196
shank235 said:
If you were to take lessons or learn any other instrument. I don't know lets say violin or trombone or something. You will learn to read music, learn to play in time without a metronome, and will learn theory and not patterns. Why would this style of teaching/learning not carry over to the electric bass? In church I play with musicians that look down on music education in general. I believe it was Jeff Berlin who said this, and this is obviously a direct quote. Reading is not required to speak the english language however you can tell if somebody can not read two seconds into what they say, the same goes for musicians. I feel like he hit the nail squarely on the head with that one.
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You can tell within two seconds that Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Paul McCartney, etc. can't read music? I can't :D That's not to say that reading isn't a great skill to have, but the ability to read well does not translate to being able to write well- Berlin is nowhere near the composer or musician that McCartney is, and I think (at least I hope) he knows that.
 
#197
Have any one here actually seen Jeff Berlin in concert(besides the B3X tour)? He really is an incredible musician.

His ability to go from killer groover to chordal support role, blowing through solos and flawlessly every where in between while expressing his interpretation of the role of modern electric bass playing is priceless.

It's definitely not a wank fest.

Catch him live with Larry Coryell.
 
#199
Bryan R. Tyler said:
You can tell within two seconds that Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Paul McCartney, etc. can't read music? I can't :D That's not to say that reading isn't a great skill to have, but the ability to read well does not translate to being able to write well- Berlin is nowhere near the composer or musician that McCartney is, and I think (at least I hope) he knows that.
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I don't know how to respond to that. Sir Paul had a knack for melodic basslines, that I agree is aweome. Writing cool melodies is what pop bands do, and it has it's place. Writing intelligent music in most cases has never been a certifying factor of popular music. Jeff Berlin, or any jazz musicians is much more qualified to be labeled a musician than anybody in pop music.
 

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