What's the problem with jeff berlin?

[waynobass]

Never heard him play; just can't stand the moustache.

 

[Dan1099]

He sort of looks like my Dad. Weird.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not at all, it just seems like most people are not 'pro-Jeff', to put it lightly. I figured if I defended him, people would get on my case. So far, so good.

Now if you can keep from flaming them, all is good.



It is funny that you say most people aren't pro-Jeff, considering how many are pro-Jeff. It's human nature, I guess, to focus on the negative.

And no, that wasn't a flame. Wasn't even a zinger.

 

[svtb15]

I have met Jeff at NAMM a few times.. I always thought he was nice.. Very passionate about his craft..I never thought he was a prick..But then i am from New Yawk too. So maybe i didn't feel the grufness.. Living in Texas for about a decade i see how thin skinned folks around here are. Its like they are children that have to be told things so gentle as to not to hurt their feelings..
I would think that after all the travel that he does it grates on his NY nerves to have to baby talk some folks..
But here in Texas if you dont baby talk them they think you are a prick..
I just think Jeeff is passioinate and confident and some people take confidence as arogance..
Got me just my 2 cents.
He was never a prick to me , if he was i would have put that bass of his where the sun dont shine.Personally I hate the crap that he plays, but thats just me... other like it..

Jeff's discussed his personality recently... and it turns out he thought people thought it was funny when he came off like a New Yawkeh Prick. Well, SURPRISE, Jeff! People just thought you were a prick. Which really isn't the case, and I know from firsthand experience. He's not the gentlest guy in the world when it comes to discussion on things he's passionate about and things you disagree with him on, but I suspect neither are a lot of TBers.

So Jeff, buddy? Please? Knock it off. Thanks, dude.

Jeff was another one of my instructors at MI; I'd hang out in his "Open Counseling" room whenever I had the chance (it was always packed). Once I asked him how to go about playing a bebop bass solo, and his response was "Well, do you know what a bebop bass solo sounds like?" I said sure, and he said, "Okay, so play one for me!" I felt like an idiot. When I said that I couldn't do it, he replied, "That's because you don't know what a bebop solo sounds like on bass." And that was the end of that discussion.

After being angry with the extremely rude way that he dealt with my question, it occurred to me that he was right - I DIDN'T know what one really sounded like, because I was too intimidated by the fact that they were going so fast for me to really pay close attention. So I went back to the apartment and got some of the records out, and slowed them down so I could hear what was going on better, and began to work on paying attention to the SOUND of a bebop bass solo (or any bebop solo, for that matter). Practice, practice...

A few months later I was back in his OC room, and out of the blue, he said to me, "Hey - did you ever figure out what a bebop solo sounds like?" I smiled, and said, "Yes, I did, Jeff - it sounds kinda like this:" And played a short solo over the first few bars of "Confirmation". Jeff smiled, and said, "YES! NOW you know what a bass solo sounds like!"

So, in his own I'm-better-than-you-punk fashion, he did manage to get me to learn something. I wasn't crazy about his methods, but I can't argue with the results. Is that fair?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Marcus Miller is from NY. Apparently it's not inevitable.

 

[Florox]

Arrogant toolbag.

What a load of bullcrap. By 1985, EVERYONE knew tapping. And when talking about bass tapping, well... Billy Shehaan was a couple of years earlier than him in "pioneering" the tapping. Like, way earlier than Jeff Berlin. Also, since I don't know much about his history, in what way did he really develop two-handed tapping.


And, two-handed tapping? Isn't the point of tapping, using two hands to tap? I find that adding the "two-handed" part is just making it a 12$ word. Tapping is Tapping.

 

[bench]

i really don´t like the argument that JB is "only" able to play in a bebop solo style.... ...as if this ment, that he can´t hold a solid groove down.
i mean no one who plays the bass can actually believe that someone with the ability on the instrument of JB would not be able to play a laid-back, supportive part in the pocket.
It´s ok to say that you don´t like what he plays or his sound (yeah, this evil chorusy one...), but i´m sure that if he was called for a session to play straight eigths he could manage the task....

 

[Brad Johnson]

i really don´t like the argument that JB is "only" able to play in a bebop solo style.... ...as if this ment, that he can´t hold a solid groove down.
i mean no one who plays the bass can actually believe that someone with the ability on the instrument of JB would not be able to play a laid-back, supportive part in the pocket.
It´s ok to say that you don´t like what he plays or his sound (yeah, this evil chorusy one...), but i´m sure that if he was called for a session to play straight eigths he could manage the task....

GENERALLY SPEAKING, meaning I'm not talking about Jeff, I have seen people who can't seem to do this.

For example I have a drummer friend who can kick Dave Weckl and Will Kennedy licks all day long. Put him on a 4/4 old school R&B or Funk cut and he's lost. Simplicity for some people is a bear.

Again, I'm not talking about Jeff, only about possibilities.

 

[Eric Perry]

What a load of bullcrap. By 1985, EVERYONE knew tapping. And when talking about bass tapping, well... Billy Shehaan was a couple of years earlier than him in "pioneering" the tapping. Like, way earlier than Jeff Berlin. Also, since I don't know much about his history, in what way did he really develop two-handed tapping.


And, two-handed tapping? Isn't the point of tapping, using two hands to tap? I find that adding the "two-handed" part is just making it a 12$ word. Tapping is Tapping.

Why do you make it sound like what I said is a load of bullcrap????

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

So then, do the majority of you believe it is Berlin's ego that makes him unlikable, or that in combination with something else (his own music, etc.)? I ask because strong opinions that may buck the current popular thinking aren't all that uncommon for some bassists. Anthony Jackson, for example, is a very opinionated guy whose opinions are often different than the norm (remember his old Bass Player columns?), whose passion for music is as great or greater than Berlin, and his demand for quality is no less. And yet he is still one of the most highly respected and revered bassists of all time- unlike Berlin, Jackson really does play with the best musicians around today, and I imagine has a gig schedule that can be as busy as he would like it to be. Even his tone can be as disliked as Berlin's- I personally dislike the tone on most of his recordings over the past 10-15 years, yet I still buy up everything I can of his because the playing is so great. So what do you think is specific to Berlin that gets him so much flack?

 

[JimmyM]

So then, do the majority of you believe it is Berlin's ego that makes him unlikable, or that in combination with something else (his own music, etc.)? I ask because strong opinions that may buck the current popular thinking aren't all that uncommon for some bassists. Anthony Jackson, for example, is a very opinionated guy whose opinions are often different than the norm (remember his old Bass Player columns?), whose passion for music is as great or greater than Berlin, and his demand for quality is no less. And yet he is still one of the most highly respected and revered bassists of all time- unlike Berlin, Jackson really does play with the best musicians around today, and I imagine has a gig schedule that can be as busy as he would like it to be. Even his tone can be as disliked as Berlin's- I personally dislike the tone on most of his recordings over the past 10-15 years, yet I still buy up everything I can of his because the playing is so great. So what do you think is specific to Berlin that gets him so much flack?

I think the most appalling things are his lack of respect for his peers and his constant beating it over our heads that he's the greatest bassist who ever lived. Anthony Jackson has a lot of opinions, but he has respect for his peers and he doesn't go around saying that he's the greatest bassist ever. Anthony Jackson never sent a letter to BP specifically to state that Jaco couldn't improvise over changes (not true, BTW). Anthony Jackson never criticized Victor Wooten's camps because of their emphasis on feeling and groove.

 

[Eric Perry]

So then, do the majority of you believe it is Berlin's ego that makes him unlikable, or that in combination with something else (his own music, etc.)? I ask because strong opinions that may buck the current popular thinking aren't all that uncommon for some bassists. Anthony Jackson, for example, is a very opinionated guy whose opinions are often different than the norm (remember his old Bass Player columns?), whose passion for music is as great or greater than Berlin, and his demand for quality is no less. And yet he is still one of the most highly respected and revered bassists of all time- unlike Berlin, Jackson really does play with the best musicians around today, and I imagine has a gig schedule that can be as busy as he would like it to be. Even his tone can be as disliked as Berlin's- I personally dislike the tone on most of his recordings over the past 10-15 years, yet I still buy up everything I can of his because the playing is so great. So what do you think is specific to Berlin that gets him so much flack?

I actually backpedaled on his ego thing after I watched his debate videos with Steve Bailey. I do think he's too arrogant, abrasive and opinionated for his own good, however. I think Berlin really goes through hoops to make sure he's heard. IMO, Jackson is a little less shove-it-down-your-throat as Jeff. Just my opinion.

His playing. I love his playing. Can't stand the chorus, but love his playing.

 

[ClassicRock55]

I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a thread discussing this yet, if there is, my apologies. I figured this thread would be the appropriate place to discuss it.

Anyway, Jeff Berlin made some remarks referring to the teaching method at Vic Wooten's camps. Vic posted it on his website, read it and share your thoughts.

http://www.victorwooten.com/

Scroll down just a bit and Jeff's article should be there.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I think the most appalling things are his lack of respect for his peers and his constant beating it over our heads that he's the greatest bassist who ever lived. Anthony Jackson has a lot of opinions, but he has respect for his peers and he doesn't go around saying that he's the greatest bassist ever. Anthony Jackson never sent a letter to BP specifically to state that Jaco couldn't improvise over changes (not true, BTW). Anthony Jackson never criticized Victor Wooten's camps because of their emphasis on feeling and groove.

Jackson's even been to Victor's camps as a guest speaker- maybe Berlin was jealous he wasn't invited? There was a funny story that came from a TBer who was at one of the camps- a kid had sanded off a small part of the back of his Fodera as a place to get autographs from some players, and Jackson apparently ripped into the kid about it I can see that happening. One thing that is interesting to me is that both Berlin and Jackson are players that insert themselves into the music- they don't try to be a faceless player that does what the producer says, and yet AJ seems to find his place in all sorts of styles while Jeff doesn't seem to have had as much luck. AJ does, IMO, have the best note choices of any bassist out there.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I'm pretty sure there hasn't been a thread discussing this yet, if there is, my apologies. I figured this thread would be the appropriate place to discuss it.

Anyway, Jeff Berlin made some remarks referring to the teaching method at Vic Wooten's camps. Vic posted it on his website, read it and share your thoughts.

http://www.victorwooten.com/

Scroll down just a bit and Jeff's article should be there.

It's been mentioned in this thread already as well as the other recent Berlin thread Thanks anyways though

 

[JimmyM]

Jackson's even been to Victor's camps as a guest speaker- maybe Berlin was jealous he wasn't invited?

Could be, especially when Jeff had Vic to the Player's School. I guess Jeff likes Vic when he can draw students to his school.

 

[phat daddy]

Do you know for sure what level of playing have they are at? what level they may practiced at? and studied at? How old are they? how long they may have been studying with Jeff?And this doesn't sound like actions that Jeff may teach his students. sound's to me like they're just being who the are for what ever reason they have chosen.








Do you have any proof of this?

Jauqo, I'm not sure why out of this entire thread you want to pick on my post, but I'm sure you have your reasons. I just really thought every thing was cool.

As for why I think what I think (which doesn't call for proof, because it's what I think, not what I know) is because I go to all kinds of open jams looking for players around here, and at most of them there's a group of Players School musicians coming out talking about blowing people out of the water, so I assume when they step on stage they're playing their best, and it's never remotely musical and after they're done everyone else ignores them, has a good laugh, and goes on playing. I've seen this happen several times at more than one venue.


As for the way JB teaches, I've met the man several times around here and he's never pleasant or even the least bit objective about anything we've ever discussed, so I assume he's probably that way with his students, especially after seeing the way they come off in musical situations outside his school.

 

[Brad Johnson]

My guess is that he asked because you made specific statements about the school that no one else did. He couldn't ask anyone else but you about what you said. I'd also guess he felt you'd be okay with him asking you.

These are just guesses.

 

[JimmyM]

My guess is that he asked because you made specific statements about the school that no one else did. He couldn't ask anyone else but you about what you said. I'd also guess he felt you'd be okay with him asking you.

These are just guesses.

Really? I thought it was because Phat and Jauqo have a history of busting stones on each other. Love 'em both, but I like to see them go at it. It's pretty entertaining. Thanks for winding them up a little more

vs.

BTW, I tend to believe Phat in this case because he lives there, and my wife was born there.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Thanks for winding them up a little more

Sorry Jimmy but It's not gonna happen