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When (beginner, intermediate, advanced, ...) can one truly appreciate a high-end bass?

#42
I played bass a bit as a youngster along with guitar. As an older adult I owned a standard Fender P bass, but it became very heavy for me. I traded it toward a very nice, light, G&L LB-100. Although I am still a beginning bass player, do I deserve this bass? Well, maybe yes and maybe no, but at least it feels really much better in my hands playing it and I can appreciate that. And I’m not sure whether a G&L is considered a boutique or even as good as a Fender P is supposed to be. I sure like it when I play it though, and that’s good enough for me no matter what I payed for it. Would I appreciate and notice the quality and nuances of a really high end bass? Probably not, but I don’t think I need a super high end bass for my enjoyment and where I am at playing bass at this time. Most new LB-100s are much more expensive than mine, which I traded for used.
 
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#44
I'd say... the point at which you notice the differences.
You might catch onto some of them in days, while others may elude you forever.


Then there's the question of what difference the differences make.

Does my playing sound any better on a custom-made boutique bass than it does on a low-end production-line model? No. I sound like me, no matter what instrument I'm holding.
Do I appreciate the differences in workmanship? You'd better believe it.

My favourite guitar is the second-cheapest in my collection, and it both looks and feels that way. When I put a brass slide on its strings, it rasps like barbed wire over crushed glass... and that's exactly the sound I want from it.
Another in my collection cost five times as much, and will never have you wondering whether it stashed a switchblade in its case, because it just sounds and feels too refined.


My point is that appreciating the differences doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to want the master-built one every time. It does mean that you'll have a better idea of why you prefer this one over that one.
And if that means you know why you prefer the cheaper one, so much the better for your bank account.
 
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#45
Bruiser Stone said:
I’m a firm believer quality gear (and not necessarily any particular brand name) puts the ball in my court.
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Strongly agree.

In photography, I bought better gear than I was (and am) a photographer. Not because I thought I'd take better photos, but because it took away any excuses: the gear just couldn't be the limiting factor. If a photo didn't turn out the way I'd hoped, there was only one place to look for the reason.
Same deal here, I think.
 
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#46
This is a tricky question. When my ex and I were doing lessons, we would tell our beginning students to buy a high-quality entry level instrument. The main issue here is that beginners don't need to be fighting against a poorly made instrument while they are also trying to learn and dealing with things like sore fingers, calluses and stiff wrists. They won't be experienced enough to know that they are also fighting against an instrument that doesn't intonate well and can't be set up comfortably or stay in tune. So, yes, beginners or their parents should not go out there and just buy the cheapest piece of crap for fear that the kid will not stay with it, because a cheap piece of crap is a self-fulfilling prophecy and the kid will not stick with it if the instrument cannot do the basic things they need to succeed initially.

That being said, it doesn't need to be a huge investment. Most instruments you can buy these days in the $200 - $300 price range are going to be good enough, especially if you buy new. Used is more of a crap shoot, because a lot of older instruments were poorly made.

I'd say if a kid (or an adult) manages to get six months worth of regular learning in, they are committed, and at that point it might be time to look for something nicer.

There does come a point of diminishing returns. I just bought a $700 bass from Sire and in many respects it's every bit as playable as my main player, which sold new for three times that money. And I don't own any instruments that are seriously expensive. I'm sure that if I played some of the boutique instruments in the $5000 range I would feel a quality difference, but I don't think I'm the player those instruments probably deserve. I'm fine with what I have, and it's fine for me.

If you're seriously good, you're going to know when the hardware is holding you back. Play lots of instruments and get a feel for what you can gain for the extra money. There's no specific point at which you deserve something better but when you play a lot you start to know where the weaknesses are in your gear.
 
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#47
mattj1stc said:
In contrast, a friend of mine just started playing guitar in his 50s. He has lots of disposable income, so his starter instrument was about $3000.
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... and while I understand his motivation, I always hate to think an instrument of that quality may end up in the closet because someone buys it but doesn't take to music.

Whenever my friends or co-workers ask me how much they should spend on an instrument - I always point them in the direction of a well made mid level Squier or Epiphone ($250 to $450cad range), usually closer to the lower end of that range.

When I was first starting out - I got an Ibanez TR50 as my first bass (still have and love it). My much more well off friend got a PRS guitar to start, I am not sure how much it exactly cost at the time but it was over a thousand. Guess who stuck with music?

Because - you either take to music or you don't, it requires work especially at the outset and that can put some people off. Buy an instrument that is going to feel good but not break the bank and see if you stick with it through the early stages.

So for the most part I don't really think a super high end or vintage instrument is a good idea to start with - even if you have the means, it saddens me to think of all the high end gear sitting in a closet not getting used because a potential hobby never developed into a passion.
 
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#48
darkinners said:
I think the first misconception is higher-end priced bass is always better.
Most higher-end bass priced that way because instead of all processes being automated by machine, they are handcrafted by a luthier. Which means the labor cost increase, doesn't help that some workshop even locates in higher living standard areal like NYC.

In this day of age, basses cost around $1000 or less always have great electronics and great built. I have your mid-level stuff like Fender America standard, EBMM Stingray to higher-end stuff like Fodera, Sadowsky NYC, Warwick Custom Shop..etc

I'd be surprised if anyone can tell which one sounds more expensive in a recording but as a player, there are some minute details in boutique bass not always present in mass-produced basses. Things like rolling fretboard edge, consistency of the fret levels, slightly asymmetrical neck profile that makes you feel equally comfortable when playing the low notes, and the higher notes. sort of stuff. I think these things can be appreciated by even not so great bass players.

In the end, use what works for you. I have friends who play professionally and use sub $1000 bass and they are not sponsored, they use it just because they like how they play and sound.
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The funny thing is that even some of those boutique features like rolled freboard edges are being automated and churned out of third world factories these days. In a blind test, there are very few American Fenders in the 2 grand or less category that I'd take off the shelf over a 600 dollar Sire M5, at least in term of neck feel. The rolled fretboard edges/satin finish/ebony necks on those genuinely would feel at home on a bass that costs 3-4 times more, IMO.
 
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#49
I feel that when a player can appreciate and understand why quality craftsmanship makes a difference for a bass, it is time to upgrade. In other words, a player has a specific "voice" or playing technique in mind and begins to understand the different qualities between bass makers.

For example, a pro plays in a rock and roll cover band, and believes a Fender Jazz or P will deliver the voice for the job. Or, a player really digs hard rock or metal and researches the best bass for their voice. I think when players are experienced and understand exactly what it is that will satisfy their needs, they can appreciate a high end instrument.
 
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#50
DigitalMan said:
I just replaced the ceiling fan in my office since I’m repainting and the style of the old fan no longer fit the color scheme. Both fans were from good companies. I made the change based on style and fit, not because I’m a ceiling fan snob. However, in so doing I came to the realization that the build quality and workmanship of the new fan greatly exceeded that of the old fan. Not that the old fan had any deficiencies.

I’m a ceiling fan beginner. But I can appreciate the difference in quality design, build, and all the little extras like how well the packaging and documentation is put together.

Expensive basses don’t take expertise to appreciate. And they don’t necessarily sound better. But if you can tell the difference between average furniture and a really nicely built piece of furniture, you are qualified to appreciate a high end bass. It’s a nicely built object.
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Sorry, I broke the cardinal rule. No pic, no ceiling fan...


4C55FFB6-B0C8-41CC-99C2-60D3128EBD7A.jpeg
 
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#51
Played my Japanese Fender PJS for 20 years before I got my first Zon. I can appreciate both sides of this fence. If you're playing in a band and just holding down the low end, a $10,000 bass is most definitely overkill. But, if you want to play a bunch of fancy solo stuff, and you won the lottery (or you lurk the TB classifieds), there ain't nothing like it. The main difference is the playability. Fenders play like.... Fenders, my Zon plays like a Ferrari. I don't need a Ferrari to go get groceries. Do you? Maybe.
 
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#52
DuluthDank said:
The funny thing is that even some of those boutique features like rolled freboard edges are being automated and churned out of third world factories these days. In a blind test, there are very few American Fenders in the 2 grand or less category that I'd take off the shelf over a 600 dollar Sire M5, at least in term of neck feel. The rolled fretboard edges/satin finish/ebony necks on those genuinely would feel at home on a bass that costs 3-4 times more, IMO.
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Yes I agree, budget bass has come a long way. If this post were made from 20 or 30 years ago. I'd say stay away from beginner/budget bass. Those were horrible, some you can't even properly intonate or volume pot makes scratchy noise after 3 days of playing. Even beginners can notice the difference between the sub $500 and sub $1500 bass.

I don't own Sire bass but I did tried my friend's I gotta agree with what you say, the bass build quality itself easily smash the bass cost 3x or 4x more than Sire. I didn't really like the preamp (a bit noisy and do not like the cut/boost frequency they choose) but those are very easy to replace and cost you probably only $150 more.
 
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#55
If you can afford it and you really want it, buy it.

To me, that's 99% of the equation. It's your money; you put the time and effort into earning it, so spend or don't spend as you see fit.

If you're going to drop any kind of real money on an instrument, however, whether new or used, do all you can to make sure it's what you really want and what really works for you. Play an example of an already-existing instrument (if you're buying something made-to-order) or if you're buying something used, see if you can't set up a time and place to play it before buying. Maybe even ask the seller to set it up with relief/action that suits your preference if they are willing to do so.

As long as you're being smart and thinking things all the way through, living within your means etc., go for it.
 
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#59
When I was first starting out I only had a Rogue bass. One day I was at a music store and tried a Rickenbacker 4003 and it was clear how much better it was, despite me still barely knowing the notes on the fretboard. I could appreciate it, it was comfortable and sounded great and it left me really wanting one for a long time afterward. That being said, I do think beginners should start on a solid budget instrument because there's no reason to start out with a $5,000 bass just to find out that they're not actually going to stick with the instrument. These days (thirteen years after touching that first Rick) I much prefer a somewhat modded cheap instrument over a nice instrument, if it's stolen or broken or something it's far less of an impact on my bank account to replace it.
 
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#60
Bartrinsic said:
What's the radius of the blade curvature? What's the weight? Is it for sale?
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Progressive radius. Chambered blades so deceptively light, but still needs a reinforced ceiling box. This is my #1 fan right now, but I do have a 5 blade western style in the family room that I would be willing to part with. PM me if interested.

(don’t actually PM me)
 
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