When to fire a band member?

[bearhart74]

I would do in this order:
1. ) Look for her replacement, privately and find a potential one or a few.
2.) Meet with all the other members of the band minus your diva member, and express to them what you say here, and propose the solution of replacing the diva and have the info of replacements ready for their consideration.
3.) Get universal consensus on replacing diva, even if there is or can be no agreement yet on WHO that replacement will be.
4.) Fire the diva.
5.) Get on with your band and life and don't let this diva paralyze everything. Go around your diva in a workplace agency situation and if that means talk to other bands or other people in them to get a direct-dial and direct contact of the desired agent, DO THAT.

Good luck with it.

wrong order of operations IMHO.
If you start with 1 then the next step should be 4 in order to eliminate the possibility of her getting further unhinged by thinking you were working behind her back. I can almost guarantee this WILL come up and shell bad mouth you guys for ever to everbody she can.

Stand up straight, tell the truth and take the hit.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

wrong order of operations IMHO.
If you start with 1 then the next step should be 4 in order to eliminate the possibility of her getting further unhinged by thinking you were working behind her back. I can almost guarantee this WILL come up and shell bad mouth you guys for ever to everbody she can.

Stand up straight, tell the truth and take the hit.

I think at a certain point, divas are always thinking you're working behind their backs or conspiring against them. I'd say yes, generally tell the truth and fire the person if there is consensus, but there is no order of operations that insulate against blowback, and the order I suggest is a consensus-based, consensus-gathering effort to get everyone onboard that the diva should go, AND that while dealing with the issue that comes from the person's intended absence, here's some possible (but not the only) solutions to consider. Don't meet just to determine whether to fire someone, but use it as a positive opportunity to build consensus and find solutions moving forward.

Also, people that badmouth to anyone and everyone, that kind of behavior at a very certain yet undefinable point, puts the PERSON who is doing the badmouthing in a questionable place more than the people or entities they are badmouthing. One can only go off only so much about another person or thing before they paint themselves as the problem, itself. It's a reputation building or destroying thing. One thing I seem to have learned over the decades of doing this is someone who will so easily, willingly badmouth someone else in front of you is seemingly JUST as willing to badmouth you. Beware of these people. We all should. And everyone in that circumstance of the original post should. And that includes ALL of the people or clubs or booking agents the disenfranchised diva will complain to in some future timeframe.

 

[Bullitt5135]

wrong order of operations IMHO.
If you start with 1 then the next step should be 4 in order to eliminate the possibility of her getting further unhinged by thinking you were working behind her back. I can almost guarantee this WILL come up and shell bad mouth you guys for ever to everbody she can.

Stand up straight, tell the truth and take the hit.

This is a great point. If you run this by the band first, you will most likely be talked into giving it a little more time, which sounds like a lose-lose for everyone involved. People get too wrapped up in FEELINGS. Stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings and get on with leading YOUR band.

 

[pepj]

Personally I wouldn't worry about an agency ...they'd have to have tied down all the gigs and thats not posdible here.
Thats assuming they would 'blacklist' you on such a flimsy reason.
And certainly would not stop me from firing her.

Agent pulled a similiar stunt here on a popular local act.
The upshot was that local bands believed the local act side of events and now most bands won't work with agent and the agent is regularly scrambling for acts to fill their gigs.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Still don’t know if anyone’s getting paid. That’s the hinge - changes it from firing to just letting someone know they’re no longer invited to volunteer. Firing is cleaner, BTW.

It also tells you the order of operations - whether you make the call, or round up a consensus first.

And yeah, you probably know this one already: the longer you build a band on volunteer time, the messier it gets when money finally shows up. First-year churn goes up. People get used to having a say, and they don’t hand it back easy.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

This is a great point. If you run this by the band first, you will most likely be talked into giving it a little more time, which sounds like a lose-lose for everyone involved. People get too wrapped up in FEELINGS. Stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings and get on with leading YOUR band.

It is a good point, but if you come to a meeting for the purpose of finding agreement about the problem, people may be much more likely to agree to let a diva go if in that same conversation, the leader can say: "Ok I've identified the problem. We all agree on the problem. ALSO, I have potential solutions to the problem, and I want you to consider them." It's not really about placating the FEELINGS of the diva which cannot be placated. It's about moving forward and being ready for what's next so the people who don't know what's next will be more confident in firing someone BECAUSE there are options to move forward.

I think people make a choice not to choose because they are not aware of much better solutions that may exist to move forward, and which could make the ability to choose, a VERY easy one. I've seen it SO often. "How could we possibly replace X". And as it turns out, X is indeed replaceable when people commit to finding solutions... even while the problems are occurring and tolerance is running out.

I guess I'm just one of the people who had bosses who said: "Don't tell me what the problem is. If you can, tell me about the problem and if you have one, propose a solution."

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

This is a great point. If you run this by the band first, you will most likely be talked into giving it a little more time, which sounds like a lose-lose for everyone involved. People get too wrapped up in FEELINGS. Stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings and get on with leading YOUR band.

I have run it by some of the band and they want to give it more time, at least most of them anyway. Nobody has outright said to fire her yet, just that the conversation/warning is necessary. I've let it go on a little bit, but I've been trying to avoid it blowing up in my face and causing a full blown mutiny - I think the more it has gone on, the more people have realized that she is the issue.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

Still don’t know if anyone’s getting paid. That’s the hinge - changes it from firing to just letting someone know they’re no longer invited to volunteer. Firing is cleaner, BTW.

It also tells you the order of operations - whether you make the call, or round up a consensus first.

And yeah, you probably know this one already: the longer you build a band on volunteer time, the messier it gets when money finally shows up. First-year churn goes up. People get used to having a say, and they don’t hand it back easy.

That's where we're at, the first year churn is ending and gigs are starting to come in. We're at a point where the decisions need to come from 1 place, and we don't have time for a democracy or we'll never get anything done.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

It is a good point, but if you come to a meeting for the purpose of finding agreement about the problem, people may be much more likely to agree to let a diva go if in that same conversation, the leader can say: "Ok I've identified the problem. We all agree on the problem. ALSO, I have potential solutions to the problem, and I want you to consider them." It's not really about placating the FEELINGS of the diva which cannot be placated. It's about moving forward and being ready for what's next so the people who don't know what's next will be more confident in firing someone BECAUSE there are options to move forward.

I think people make a choice not to choose because they are not aware of much better solutions that may exist to move forward, and which could make the ability to choose, a VERY easy one. I've seen it SO often. "How could we possibly replace X". And as it turns out, X is indeed replaceable when people commit to finding solutions... even while the problems are occurring and tolerance is running out.

I guess I'm just one of the people who had bosses who said: "Don't tell me what the problem is. If you can, tell me about the problem and if you have one, propose a solution."

I think this is where my bandmates are coming from. I think they are scared to replace her. She's a great singer, but we have 2 other great singers that we can fall back on for now, and there are tons of singers out there. Replacing her isn't a thing that I am worried about. The only thing that really concerns me at all is any blowback from other members and the agency.

 

[Pocket Dave]

That's where we're at, the first year churn is ending and gigs are starting to come in. We're at a point where the decisions need to come from 1 place, and we don't have time for a democracy or we'll never get anything done.

Agreed.

So how long you been paying everybody?

That’s about where the turnover kicks into high gear.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

Agreed.

So how long you been paying everybody?

That’s about where the turnover kicks into high gear.

Not long, just had the first gigs in April and about to have a few more next month.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Not long, just had the first gigs in April and about to have a few more next month.

Yeah. Buckle up. Keep your contacts fresh - things might get interesting.

Line up some subs before you need them - get names, get referrals, kick the tires. Busy bands always need bodies. Some of those “fill-ins” don’t stay fill-ins.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

Yeah. Buckle up. Keep your contacts fresh - things might get interesting.

Line up some subs before you need them - get names, get referrals, kick the tires. Busy bands always need bodies. Some of those “fill-ins” don’t stay fill-ins.

Exactly how I was hoping it would not be, but probably realistic. I'll get started on contacting subs this week. Thanks man

 

[Pocket Dave]

Exactly how I was hoping it would not be, but probably realistic. I'll get started on contacting subs this week. Thanks man

Just tell them things are starting to get busy and you wanted to refresh your contact list for subs - is this the best number to reach you?

Keep it short - don't overexplain - and they'll look forward to hearing from you when the time's right.

 

[Bruiser Stone]

It wasn’t that bad. Not bad enough to justify the reaction. I was definitely being baited into an argument by her when I made the comment, which is on me for taking the bait, but it wasn't even close to bad enough for her to continue behaving this way. I think it was just the first step in a long line of power struggles.

THEN FIRE HER. NOW. Just on the content of your reply here to me if not on everything else you shared before in your original post. You will find a replacement. Distraction (and future band destructor) eliminated.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Exactly how I was hoping it would not be, but probably realistic. I'll get started on contacting subs this week. Thanks man

Just tell them things are starting to get busy and you wanted to refresh your contact list for subs - is this the best number to reach you?

Keep it short - don't overexplain - and they'll look forward to hearing from you when the time's right.

Something I omitted - get on deck for 50% of the upcoming necessary churn - you're going to be the one who has to initiate it.

Might as well get comfortable being uncomfortable.

 

[Pep]

It wasn’t that bad. Not bad enough to justify the reaction.

The longer this thread goes on the more I’m thinking there’s a bit more to the story than the picture you’re painting.

Since you’ve chosen not to reveal your comment “in context” within the conversation, it tells me your comment was ”that bad”. I’m not needing to know all the “dirt” but perhaps you need to be more honest with yourself about how you may have “stepped over the line” and if you did, in most cases an apology won’t heal the situation.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

The longer this thread goes on the more I’m thinking there’s a bit more to the story than the picture you’re painting.

Since you’ve chosen not to reveal your comment “in context” within the conversation, it tells me your comment was ”that bad”. I’m not needing to know all the “dirt” but perhaps you need to be more honest with yourself about how you may have “stepped over the line” and if you did, in most cases an apology won’t heal the situation.

I said that a band we played in together had bad communication on stage. It was “[band] had bad communication on stage”. Thats verbatim too, no more, no less and I dropped it after that. I did apologize because she took it as an insult.

 

[CochinoBass]

On the gig, she is acting out on stage, speaking to members unprofessionally, and was visibly angry on stage to audience members because the sound guy was not great.

In my opinion this is the worst thing she did and would warrant getting fired. You cannot conduct yourself like that in front of the audience.

 

[Stinky_Fingers]

In my opinion this is the worst thing she did and would warrant getting fired. You cannot conduct yourself like that in front of the audience.

Yeah, several of us discussed that. Other members still didn’t think we cut her yet