Why are lined Fretless even a thing?

[SteveCS]

No I haven't. I'll listen to it. But even the best players can have moments where they are out-of-tune but I heard him before on fretless he is usually spot-on to my ears ;-)

Indeed, momentary lapses happen, get dealt with and are gone. But this is, to my ears at least, consistently 'insecure', to use the technical term. It really melts my ears, which is a shame because it detracts from everything else.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Thanks for the interesting post...can one play a low F and G with this?.

Sure. I can. I don't know about the collective "one."
For me, I need all the help I can to get my hand get in the proper place to execute notes using good hand position.
Therefore, these lines - which are in place of the frets - and these dots - in the standard place for dots - help me, overall, play more in tune.
But I spend all my practice time on an unlined RIC.

 

[SteveCS]

regarding metheny, stern, zawinul, benson, brecker, etc.



-nuff said.

Well it's easy to hide behind big names and make out you know what they think/thought. Why don't you tell us about your own experiences with fretless bass instead of surmising what those folks might think in the hope of trolling up a spat?

 

[thunesBARROW]

I rely on both lines and dots while playing fretless. I’ve had musicians and audience members comment “You played a fretless tonight?” many times after gigs. While I think an unlined fretless looks cool, I personally find it impractical on a (bass) guitar and find that I can play better and more in tune with the assistance of visual aids. I also play the piano and look down ALL the time.

 

[SteveCS]

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I’ve had musicians and audience members comment “You played a fretless tonight?”
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Would it be fair to deduce from this that fretless is an occasional or minority thing for you?

 

[kesslari]

I don't really care what those guys think. I can see the attraction where the main objective of the music seems to be to cram as many notes as possible into every measure - he certainly delivers on that one. On a personal values level, playing in tune trumps playing lots of notes, every time. But like the other video posted by @ugly_bassplayer above says - I got a thing, You got a thing, We all got a thing.

And yet you list Jaco under your "teachers/influences".
I'm very impressed by your strong statements about intonation and would like to hear some of your fretless catalog. What major artists and records can I hear you on? I have Spotify and Pandora. Who are you currently touring with?

 

[James Collins]

And yet you list Jaco under your "teachers/influences".
I'm very impressed by your strong statements about intonation and would like to hear some of your fretless catalog. What major artists and records can I hear you on? I have Spotify and Pandora. Who are you currently touring with?

 

[SteveCS]

And yet you list Jaco under your "teachers/influences".
...

He did a lot more than shredding, IIRC.
I've posted a few examples around the place, but nothing on the scale of major acts or recordings. But you already knew that.
I don't want to get drawn into a urinating contest here. This all came from an assertion that lines are necessary for good intonation and will always lead to better intonation than is possible without them. That is a false premise.

 

[kesslari]

He did a lot more than shredding, IIRC.
I've posted a few examples around the place, but nothing on the scale of major acts or recordings. But you already knew that.

I did not know that, but am not surprised.

 

[SteveCS]

I did not know that, but am not surprised.

Thanks for your kind words.
I don't see how it matters as plenty of people play to a very high standard without being 'professional', just as there are plenty of professionals that don't.

 

[Lesfunk]

Without reading 400 posts, I don’t think fret less lines are cheating or even originally meant to help visually with intonation.
I don’t think the guys who play fretless at a high level even care or notice
I think it may stem from JACO, who, by taking his frets out of his jazz bass and filling in the fret grooves, invented the lined fretless jazz bass.
I don’t know if it was thing before that. Was it? Were there (many) lined fretless basses before JACO? I’m too lazy to research it.
I remember the original fender fretless basses were P basses with a unlined maple board
I think only after that, the marketing guys figured they could sell the lined fretless as a value added feature to help players with visual intonation.

 

[thmsjordan]

This debate has to be one of the absolute silliest on tb EVER. Who the (blank) cares? No one, absolutely no one. Whether or not a bass has inlaid fretlines has nothing to do with how good a player is. It’s the sound of a bass without frets; that’s what’s so attractive about it.

THANK YOU! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Ronzo]

@citizenchris099
Many fretless basses have lines. Mine do not. I had a de-fretted neck once.
My violin instructor in first grade insisted we not look at the hand position when playing. So did my cello teacher in 5th grade. So did my piano teacher. So did my bass teacher and my guitar teacher. But some electric bassists have different opinions.
It's been pointed out to me not to criticize lined fretless basses. I stick to my guns that all other "fretless" or slide instruments of any category are essentially "forbidden" from visual markers (trombone, viola, double bass...) but it has also been brought to my attention that bass guitar is exclusive. So I'd say if your bass has lines so be it, don't get in the habit of looking becasue watching your position instead of listening and feeling is incorrect in non-bass guitar instruments, still up for discussion if it is proper technique for bass guitar. Bring the heat, you know I'm right.[/QUOTE]
My granddaughter learned to play the viola pretty well (first chair in her HS All-County Orchestra). The school district teaches stringed instruments using the Suzuki method, which apparently uses tape on the fingerboard to inculcate proper intonation until the student’s ear is sufficiently developed not to need it. I have no first-hand experience with this. But I remember the terrible listening experiences hearing middle school orchestras in my youth and when my children were growing up, and even the basic middle school orchestras I’ve had to sit through before the more advanced kids were to play sounded much better than years ago. Bow technique may be lacking, but the orchestra played in tune.

If lines taped to the fingerboard is the newest string instrument pedagogy, then I have no problem with my lined Ibanez SR500FL.

 

[thunesBARROW]

Would it be fair to deduce from this that fretless is an occasional or minority thing for you?

It wouldn’t be, and it isn’t. Regular fretless player here.

I’m sorry, but I can’t see how lines are a hindrance to my playing. How else can you reliably move up and down the neck during fast passages? Also what if your monitoring situation is less than ideal?

If you have poor intonation, no marker in the world will make you play in tune.

 

[SteveCS]

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I’m sorry, but I can’t see how lines are a hindrance to my playing.
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I never suggested that they would be.

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If you have poor intonation, no marker in the world will make you play in tune.
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This was my one and only point, and probably the only fact presented in the entire discussion.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

I play lined and unlined. It doesn't matter to me because I don't really look at the neck anyhow.

 

[faivy]

Late entry....I've always played unlined fretless. I saw the lines as cheating. I have an unlined 68 AMUB-1 that I love and I sold a Yamaha active BB3000 that I liked a lot but I'm not really fond of onboard preamps so I ended up selling it to fund another purchase....Last week I ended up with a lined board Yamaha BB2000 passive Reverse P Blade J and I love the tones and I find the lines serve the same purpose lines do on a road...keep me in my lane. I love this bass and I love having the fret lines.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

of course I’m probably wrong, but…

There could be an economic situation going on with manufacturers. Instead of carrying two boards, a fretted and a blank plank, it’s easier to make one board. One with plastic lines and another with frets, because it will be cut for both.
One board made for either applications.
Just a worthless opinion.

 

[Tim Schnautz]

When I was playing a lot of fretless, I preferred my unlined custom over my lined MiM Fender Jazz because if I tried to put my fingers right on the line the intonation seemed off where I tended not to have problem with my unlined custom.

 

[zontar]

of course I’m probably wrong, but…

There could be an economic situation going on with manufacturers. Instead of carrying two boards, a fretted and a blank plank, it’s easier to make one board. One with plastic lines and another with frets, because it will be cut for both.
One board made for either applications.
Just a worthless opinion.

Could be, it would depend on how they do the work.
Is it tricky to cut the boards and then remove them before the fret slots are cut?