• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

why are some fenders made like this

#161
Deedubs said:
thats what im doing. i dont consider it a fake way to achive old school wear. with the way most basses are finished these days (poly), its really the only way to get that look. plus if you natullay wear into your new finish job, how can that be concidered fake?
Click to expand...

Because your not "naturally" wearing into your finish, you're intentionally removing your factory finish, re-spraying it, in a completely different paint (with the knowledge that it'll fade, discolor, wear thin, etc.) and your doing all of it for a "look"

And that "look" is inevitably the appearance of an older, worn out bass that's had many miles put on it.
A .........ahem................."Road Worn" bass.


Whether Fender does it, Nash does it, your guitar tech does it, or you do your own over time, in the end it's still just a bass that been purposely altered all for the sake of looking worn out.
Well poly does not wear out, at least not like nitro.

There for its still technically unnatural. What's funny is that you guys against these bases really believe that this method makes it somehow different because you purposely did the deceptive look yourselves, when really all it is, is a harder and longer path to the exact same result, a modern bass unnaturally worn out.

This is why I just don't get the stigma that's being put on these guys with the road worn basses, almost all of us appreciate the look of a vintage bass, or a bass that's been worked for years and years. Who cares how each guy goes about getting that look.

And really how realistic is it that most bassists will ever BR able to get their bass to have "the look" most guys show up to a gig with their bass in a case, or gig bag, they strap it on play some music and back in the case it goes.
Unless your either bouncing off the damn cabs and rolling across the floor it'll take years and years and years to ever get it even close to that sought after look if you ever get there in your lifetime even with nitro.

By the time that paint yellows, checks, and starts to wear off you'll have arthritis and no longer playing..........Unless.........your planning on speeding up the process by purposely doing stuff to get there. Which again just makes it no different at all.

Just my opinion, it's definitely not necessary that we all agree I guess.
 
#162
Well… they've been doing the same thing for clothes for years. For example, women wear cutoff denim shorts that look like they're just worn-in jeans that ripped at some point. The women who wear these shorts love the comfort, the softness, and the style of them.

I might take it further and say they're paying to be part of the club. Vintage clothes are a better example of this—you want the "vintage" look without having to buy clothes that were made in the 70s (there are only so many old shirts out there).

In much the same ways, people are trying to fit into the "vintage" guitar club. They want that old, badass guitar look…but they haven't put enough hours into a bass to get it. It's impatience—but I'm not sure it's a bad thing in all cases. After all, not everyone can put 5 hours a day on their axe, and not everyone wants to wait forever for their neck to wear down in the right spots.

I find that all of this is inauthentic in some important sense. When we put fret time in, when we leave marks on our instruments, we do it in our own way. The entire point is to be able to look at your instrument and know you put those marks there, you played good shows, you played bad shows, and so on. The same thing happens with a good pair of jeans that wears down. You wore those jeans out: they ripped because of the way you move, the things you do, and so on.

Here's the argument: to live is (in part) to express yourself in, on, and through the objects around you. When you buy a reliced instrument, you're skipping over parts of life that I happen to think are important. I mean: Eddie Van Halen made his mark on all of his instruments. But instead of being inspired and making our marks on our own instruments—and learning about our instruments and selves in the process—we copy Eddie's marks.

Of course, the issue gets more complicated from here on out. For example, you might say: "Fine. But don't people end up making their own marks on reliced instruments anyway? When you play a Fender Road Worn, you're still gonna put your own fingercheese and dirt on it." I think that's true, but the point is that people are trying to avoid making their own marks on things.

I don't know if any of this is a bad thing though. I find it interesting and (culturally) important, though.
 
#163
keyofnight said:
Of course, the issue gets more complicated from here on out. For example, you might say: "Fine. But don't people end up making their own marks on reliced instruments anyway? When you play a Fender Road Worn, you're still gonna put your own fingercheese and dirt on it." I think that's true, but the point is that people are trying to avoid making their own marks on things.
Click to expand...

How exactly are they avoiding or trying to avoid putting their own marks?

And how are they missing anything at their gigs because they have a bass with a different finish on it?

And yes they will put their own marks, scratches, wear & tear on these basses just like any other bass, so what exactly is different?

Are you saying if I buy a road worn bass and gig with it for the next 20 years, tour the country playing shows all over, sweat all over it, drop it because I was drunk, have a bottle thrown into it, play it some more, practice on it for 3-4 hours a day every day, change the P'ups, change them back, change the strings s few hundred times, change through a few different pick guard colors and back again.

And you do the exact same thing with a bright shiny Un-reliced bass, you will have gained something more from your 20 years that I didn't during mine because your bass started more shiny & clean?

C'mon you guys aren't serious with this nonsense are you? Do you really believe that?
Honest question here, I'm not trying to be confrontational in any way I'm just having a hell of a time trying to understand the logic behind your thinking.
 
#164
keyofnight said:
Well… they've been doing the same thing for clothes for years. For example, women wear cutoff denim shorts that look like they're just worn-in jeans that ripped at some point. The women who wear these shorts love the comfort, the softness, and the style of them.

I might take it further and say they're paying to be part of the club. Vintage clothes are a better example of this—you want the "vintage" look without having to buy clothes that were made in the 70s (there are only so many old shirts out there).

In much the same ways, people are trying to fit into the "vintage" guitar club. They want that old, badass guitar look…but they haven't put enough hours into a bass to get it. It's impatience—but I'm not sure it's a bad thing in all cases. After all, not everyone can put 5 hours a day on their axe, and not everyone wants to wait forever for their neck to wear down in the right spots.

I find that all of this is inauthentic in some important sense. When we put fret time in, when we leave marks on our instruments, we do it in our own way. The entire point is to be able to look at your instrument and know you put those marks there, you played good shows, you played bad shows, and so on. The same thing happens with a good pair of jeans that wears down. You wore those jeans out: they ripped because of the way you move, the things you do, and so on.

Here's the argument: to live is (in part) to express yourself in, on, and through the objects around you. When you buy a reliced instrument, you're skipping over parts of life that I happen to think are important. I mean: Eddie Van Halen made his mark on all of his instruments. But instead of being inspired and making our marks on our own instruments—and learning about our instruments and selves in the process—we copy Eddie's marks.

Of course, the issue gets more complicated from here on out. For example, you might say: "Fine. But don't people end up making their own marks on reliced instruments anyway? When you play a Fender Road Worn, you're still gonna put your own fingercheese and dirt on it." I think that's true, but the point is that people are trying to avoid making their own marks on things.

I don't know if any of this is a bad thing though. I find it interesting and (culturally) important, though.
Click to expand...

IMO, this is such a reach of reasoning.....another continuous amount of banter about reliced vs. non-reliced....

taking a totally subjective topic and trying to justify it is one of TB's favorite passtimes......

i guess its time to see if thunderbirds really have that big of an issue with neck dive.... :rollno:

these get so old!
 
#165
JumboJack said:
That just goes to show that looks are more important to some people than actually sounding good... :hiding:
Click to expand...

let me clarify a bit here. my statement is certainly an exercise in hyperbole. but i feel like there's a wealth of great instruments out there. i don't necessarily believe in "the one." so i could play a relic-type bass that certainly feels good. but if i'm going to spend money on an instrument and keep it around for a very long time (i don't like to trade or sell if i can help it ), i want it to look good. so if i pass on that relic, that's okay...there'll be other basses that play and sound excellent. mass production has come a long way on guitars and basses, so i simply don't worry about missing "the gem."

"look good" is, of course, subjective. but the relic'ing thing isn't the issue. it's just having a bass that you're happy with, period. i wouldn't necessarily be into a hot pink or neon green bass, because i don't like those finishes. now, if i had the skills to strip and refinish, that'd be a different story. as it is, i'm just a busy guy playing in a couple bands.
 
#168
When I was a kid and we would buy an instrument that had a scratch on it we asked for discount because it was considered damaged. Now you pay $500 extra for relicing. I personally like brand-new shiny guitars,and bases but I have nothing against anyone buying something if that's what they like. I've also have bought many used guitars and basses. most of them had damage on them that I didn't cause. I have been playing for over 40 years, and buying an instrument that's used or reliced doesn't make me or anyone else a poser. Looking the part of a musician and not being able to play is what my definition of a poser would be. Play what inspires you, and ignore what anyone else thanks..
 
#169
1SHOT1HIT said:
Because your not "naturally" wearing into your finish, you're intentionally removing your factory finish, re-spraying it, in a completely different paint (with the knowledge that it'll fade, discolor, wear thin, etc.) and your doing all of it for a "look"

And that "look" is inevitably the appearance of an older, worn out bass that's had many miles put on it.
A .........ahem................."Road Worn" bass.


Whether Fender does it, Nash does it, your guitar tech does it, or you do your own over time, in the end it's still just a bass that been purposely altered all for the sake of looking worn out.
Well poly does not wear out, at least not like nitro.

There for its still technically unnatural. What's funny is that you guys against these bases really believe that this method makes it somehow different because you purposely did the deceptive look yourselves, when really all it is, is a harder and longer path to the exact same result, a modern bass unnaturally worn out.

This is why I just don't get the stigma that's being put on these guys with the road worn basses, almost all of us appreciate the look of a vintage bass, or a bass that's been worked for years and years. Who cares how each guy goes about getting that look.

And really how realistic is it that most bassists will ever BR able to get their bass to have "the look" most guys show up to a gig with their bass in a case, or gig bag, they strap it on play some music and back in the case it goes.
Unless your either bouncing off the damn cabs and rolling across the floor it'll take years and years and years to ever get it even close to that sought after look if you ever get there in your lifetime even with nitro.

By the time that paint yellows, checks, and starts to wear off you'll have arthritis and no longer playing..........Unless.........your planning on speeding up the process by purposely doing stuff to get there. Which again just makes it no different at all.

Just my opinion, it's definitely not necessary that we all agree I guess.
Click to expand...

ok real question here. how is it fake to refinish a bass in the old school method that actually "wears", then wear it out natually from that point yourself? wouldnt it be just as authentic as a bass that was nitro finished from the factory "nos"?
it wouldn't "appear" to be worn from years of play. it WOULD be worn from years of play.....but because it was refinished like new, the same way the old and nos basses are and were, you still consider it fake wear even if i put all the wear on it natually myself?
if you have read my earlier posts you would see that i wouldnt have a problem with owning a factory reliced bass. i just love my p bass and dont see any point in buying another so i can have a nitro finish.
also there are those who say nitro finished basses vibrate more freely and have more sustain. the trade of is a fragile finish. well thats a win win for me. even if it dosnt effect tone and sustain i really dont like the high gloss look of poly.
 
#170
Deedubs said:
ok real question here. how is it fake to refinish a bass in the old school method that actually "wears", then wear it out natually from that point yourself? wouldnt it be just as authentic as a bass that was nitro finished from the factory "nos"?
it wouldn't "appear" to be worn from years of play. it WOULD be worn from years of play.....but because it was refinished like new, the same way the old and nos basses are and were, you still consider it fake wear even if i put all the wear on it natually myself?
if you have read my earlier posts you would see that i wouldnt have a problem with owning a factory reliced bass. i just love my p bass and dont see any point in buying another so i can have a nitro finish.
also there are those who say nitro finished basses vibrate more freely and have more sustain. the trade of is a fragile finish. well thats a win win for me. even if it dosnt effect tone and sustain i really dont like the high gloss look of poly.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that it's no different.
Personally I don't really look at either as "fake" as much as i think it's just another custom option.

But since I started the conversation between us using that word, I'll say that it's fake in the same sense as the other because only the factory original finish is the correct and real finish.
Once that finish is gone its gone (or covered)
Your painting it to over time achieve a reliced finish.
You do realize that process is going to take like 15-20-30+ years to achieve right? Naturally anyway.
So either your wasting your time, or your planning to speed it along to achieve "the look"

Because if your planning on honestly letting it happen naturally and treating the bass like it should be treated which is trying to care for it.
It's going to take forever to get to any kinda "look"
In that time period, the road worn will also have aged nicely probably discolored a bit and started checking (depending) and again back full circle, I ask how is the road word player any different?

Just because his scratches end up slightly larger quicker doesn't mean anything other than his scratches are bigger.
He still put in 20 years, just like you.

Now, let me also clarify I'm NOT saying your method is "fake" I originally asked how it was any different from a road worn?
I will refinish basses, I will buy reliced basses, I own a real 62 J, I support every approach there is to anyone just playing music and having fun doing it.

So please don't take my asking as me telling anyone their way is bad, I'm just hoping people will get over themselves and realize that everyone is entitled to have their bass finished ANYWAY they decide makes them happy and should not be insulted because of it. Especially from anyone that's playing anything but a factory painted exactly as it was intended bass, because anything beyond the way the factory intended it to be and absolute genuine and honest long term wear and tear, it's all the same in the end.
 
#171
all is good.
just to be clear i have zero issues with people who buy reliced instruments.
i just wanted to keep my current bass, and refinish it.
if i was confident that i would be happy with the resuls of my own relic job, i would have no problem speeding up the process myself.
i just see it as an added bonus that i put the wear in it myself natullay. not that i have a problem with relicing.
i may pick up a rw bass in the future if the price is to good to pass up.
anyway...i do enjoy a good conversation, and because its hard to see emotions behind peoples posts, i just want to make it clear that im all good!
 
#175
I was gigging a CS NOS 1960 P for first time the other night. It has a 3TS finish. The neck is made from a light maple and has a clear finish.

Guy came up to me, "Your bass is too white." He was talking about the headstock. The first comment anyone makes about one of my basses is that it doesn't look old enough. :D
 
#176
I kind of look at this way.
Lets take this example: Lets say we have three 1962 P-basses for sale. Which one is worth more.

Bass #1 All original, Condition is a 9.5 out of 10. Most valuable on the market.
Bass #2 All original, Very Road Worn. Cosmetic condition is 4.5 out of 10. 2nd most valuable
Bass #3 All original but has been "refinished" to look like new.
Cosmetic condition is a 9.5 out of 10. 3rd most valuable.

In 30 or 40 years, I wonder what people will be paying for the factory manufactured road worn guitars that are being made today.
I don't know but maybe this is just a fad and will go away sooner or later???
 
#177
Deedubs said:
all is good.
just to be clear i have zero issues with people who buy reliced instruments.
i just wanted to keep my current bass, and refinish it.
if i was confident that i would be happy with the resuls of my own relic job, i would have no problem speeding up the process myself.
i just see it as an added bonus that i put the wear in it myself natullay. not that i have a problem with relicing.
i may pick up a rw bass in the future if the price is to good to pass up.
anyway...i do enjoy a good conversation, and because its hard to see emotions behind peoples posts, i just want to make it clear that im all good!
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely no elevated emotions here either, and your neutral position on the subject has been relatively clear.
If I seem to be jumping on you for anything please accept my apologies and hypothetical Internet hand shake. No hard feelings

Kum ba ya Kum ba ya :-) and all that good sweet stuff.

No, it just sucks that something so trivial as a couple little quarter sized sections of paint, a neck that's been slightly worn down just like 80% of anyone does anyway gets such a bad stigma attached to it.

From what I gather they're really nice basses for the money, I personally would be proud to have one...Anyone feeling generous? I've got another $100 dollar bill :-)
 
#179
I just got a new car. But, I didn't want it to look new. So, I had the dealer add dents in it, a couple of primer spots, dry rotted windshield wipers, and swapped the tires for an old, non-matching set. Now it drives even better! :D
 
#180
Stewie26 said:
I kind of look at this way.
Lets take this example: Lets say we have three 1962 P-basses for sale. Which one is worth more.

Bass #1 All original, Condition is a 9.5 out of 10. Most valuable on the market.
Bass #2 All original, Very Road Worn. Cosmetic condition is 4.5 out of 10. 2nd most valuable
Bass #3 All original but has been "refinished" to look like new.
Cosmetic condition is a 9.5 out of 10. 3rd most valuable.

In 30 or 40 years, I wonder what people will be paying for the factory manufactured road worn guitars that are being made today.
I don't know but maybe this is just a fad and will go away sooner or later???
Click to expand...

It may very well just be a fad, like anything else.
But considering most fads are we all do sure this one is so horrible?

Personally I'd rather see guys with some pretty road worn basses, than some other crazy style similar to oh idk maybe sagging your pants or wearing a baseball cap 4 sizes too big with the bill as flat as ironing board sticking out to the side.
This fad really isn't all that bad. If everyone chases this fad away we may get stuck with guys hanging bling from the headstocks or tassels from the bridge with sparkles and bike horns.

Careful what you ask for. :-)
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back