Why do people discrimanate?

[Brad Johnson]

You don't have to agree with anyone's lifestyle AFAIK. I don't "agree" with people who play the lottery. But I also don't look at it as anything more than just a thing they do.

No problem as far as keeping the dialogue going... I'm recuperating from the flu and the cabin fever had been getting to me anyway. I had time

 

[MJ5150]

"I'm recuperating from the flu"
Pneumonia going through our house right now. I have managed to avoid it thus far, but one kid and the wife have it at this moment!

"You don't have to agree with anyone's lifestyle"
True. I just dislike being called close/narrow/small minded when I tell someone I disagree. Two people disagree on ones sexuality. The one in disagreement thus decides to associate mainly with those that share his/her opinion. Nothing close/narrow/small minded about it to me. I like team A, so I choose not to watch team B in favor of team A. Some would declare me a close/narrow/small minded person for so doing.

-Mike

 

[Melf]

originally posted by funkyebk

and wouldn't it be nice if Humans acted *better* than animals?

I wasn't trying to imply anything at all, and certainly not that, when I said that animals exhibit homosexual behavior.

here's the deal... stating that animals exhibt X behaviour doesn't sway folks that consider humanity higher in a heirachy of life than animals because of our ability to reason, the concept of self control...

I'm not sure if I'm preaching to the choir or not, but here goes...

I'm sure everone here agrees with me that the urge to have sex is deeply ingrained in both humans and animals. So since a small percentage of animals exhibit homosexual behavior, wouldn't it make sense that a small percentage of humans would as well, simply based on genetic makeup?

^I'm not trying to insult anybody or rag on homosexuality. I have a few homosexual friends myself and I've got nothing against them. In my opinion I don't think it should matter--sexual preference should be the same as skin or hair color. I believe that homosexuality is genetically hard-wired, and that nobody should be discriminated against merely because a certain aspect of their lifestyle isn't the norm.

EDIT: Typo

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally posted by MJ5150

True. I just dislike being called close/narrow/small minded when I tell someone I disagree. Two people disagree on ones sexuality. The one in disagreement thus decides to associate mainly with those that share his/her opinion. Nothing close/narrow/small minded about it to me. I like team A, so I choose not to watch team B in favor of team A. Some would declare me a close/narrow/small minded person for so doing.

-Mike

But why would someone's sexuality matter in everyday affairs? By avoiding someone because of their sexual preference, you could be missing out on an opportunity. If everyone I associated with had to agree with my personal philosophies and personal morals, I probaly wouldn't have any friends. Again, I'm not attacking you either, but just wanted to offer my point of view on the situation.

Also, it's easy to discriminate against people whom you think you understand but don't. There has been lots of people who thought I was gay the first time they met me. I'm not and I just tell them that I discovered my anima at an early age. (it's odd though, I'm attracted to more "boyish" girls ie: short hair, tomboyish in nature, ect. I guess, girls who are in touch with their animus ) Not accusing anybody of discriminating against people they don't understand, just saying that being different from the status quo can lead to people making incorrect judgements on you.

 

[MJ5150]

LM....Someones sexuality has little affect on daily affairs. I wouldn't say no affect though.

"you could be missing out on an opportunity"
I suppose you are right about that. I prefer not to look at life that way, or else I would have a hard time making an kind of decision. I would always be in fear of missing something. I do not select friends who only agree with everything I do. My life would be boring as hell if everyone I knew was just like me. When it comes to sexual preference, I prefer to hang out with other heterosexual people. Homosexual people would prefer to associate with other homosexuals. Ain't a dang thing wrong with that.

"being different from the status quo can lead to people making incorrect judgements on you."
Definitely. If you choose to be different, be prepared to have that happen.

-Mike

 

[clef360]

Just something interesting. About a decade ago there was a study about homosexuality in twins. One of the results was about identical twins, and showed that if one of the twins was homosexual, 50% of the time the other twin was also homosexual. Therefore one of the conclusions was that since identical twins have the exact same genetic makeup, homosexuality could not be purely dependent on genetics. Of course it's possible, that our understanding of the genetics involved or the study was flawed, but most of the research we have today indicates that environment has something to do with homosexuality.

Here's a link. For some general information.

 

[mz91]

Originally posted by clef360
I'm not disagreeing with you, but under what criteria do you decide what is right , wrong or just different?

Simply what you were brought up believing. Each person is brought up differently depending on culture and their values they percieve different things as "right and wrong." For example if i grew up in a multi national environment i wouldnt see as big a difference in whose african whose white american whose asian or what not. Or if my father was a homophobe, i would most probably grow up thinking that homosexuals are "wrong" whereas someone with a open minded dad might see nothing wrong in homosexual behavior. So to me, the criteria in which people decide what is wrong right or just different is all in their personal opinions...
Michael

 

[clef360]

Originally posted by mz91
Simply what you were brought up believing. Each person is brought up differently depending on culture and their values they percieve different things as "right and wrong." For example if i grew up in a multi national environment i wouldnt see as big a difference in whose african whose white american whose asian or what not. Or if my father was a homophobe, i would most probably grow up thinking that homosexuals are "wrong" whereas someone with a open minded dad might see nothing wrong in homosexual behavior. So to me, the criteria in which people decide what is wrong right or just different is all in their personal opinions...
Michael

Agreed, one's personal values has everything to with what he has been exposed to in his lifetime and his own personal decision.

 

[Gia]

Originally posted by MJ5150
Homosexual people would prefer to associate with other homosexuals.

you are wrong. Wrong as wrong can be. It amazes me actually how wrong you are.

People choose to associate with people based on their interests, personality and general demenour NOT what they do in the bedroom.

If you like to have your toes sucked during sex, does that make you prefer to associate with other toe suckers ? No!

How can you make such a sweeping generalisation like that ? It actually really confuses me how you can say that. Do you know every homosexual in the world? No. Do you even know a large group of homosexuals who follow your stupid & wrong generalisation ? No !

God, you are so wrong.

 

[mz91]

Originally posted by BrokenAngel
you are wrong. Wrong as wrong can be. It amazes me actually how wrong you are.

People choose to associate with people based on their interests, personality and general demenour NOT what they do in the bedroom.

If you like to have your toes sucked during sex, does that make you prefer to associate with other toe suckers ? No!

How can you make such a sweeping generalisation like that ? It actually really confuses me how you can say that. Do you know every homosexual in the world? No. Do you even know a large group of homosexuals who follow your stupid & wrong generalisation ? No !

God, you are so wrong.

I agree with Broken Angel but i wouldnt have put it so harshly......

but i do agree that that generalization is over the top!
There is no way you can put them all into one category like that....

 

[MJ5150]

Don't start with me Ms. Grouchy.

Well, where I live they have gay bars, gay dance clubs, gay nights, gay parades, gay concerts, gay day, gay stores, gay people set up outings for other gays to hang out together, gay social clubs, and other events especially for gay people. After observing these things for years, and seeing the large turnout for them repeatedly, it did not seem idiotic for me to say that gay people would prefer to associate with other gay people.

"Do you even know a large group of homosexuals who follow your stupid & wrong generalisation ? No !"

Woopsie. You didn't give me a chance to answer that question. I would have said yes if you would have given me the chance. So, I guess you DO know every gay person in the world, and you can matter of factly condemn my comment?

Let me amend my comment so as not to offend the touchy ones this morning....
Many homosexual people would prefer to associate with other homosexual people.

-Mike

 

[mz91]

Originally posted by MJ5150
Don't start with me Ms. Grouchy.

Well, where I live they have gay bars, gay dance clubs, gay nights, gay parades, gay concerts, gay day, gay stores, gay people set up outings for other gays to hang out together, gay social clubs, and other events especially for gay people. After observing these things for years, and seeing the large turnout for them repeatedly, it did not seem idiotic for me to say that gay people would prefer to associate with other gay people.

"Do you even know a large group of homosexuals who follow your stupid & wrong generalisation ? No !"

Woopsie. You didn't give me a chance to answer that question. I would have said yes if you would have given me the chance. So, I guess you DO know every gay person in the world, and you can matter of factly condemn my comment?

Let me amend my comment so as not to offend the touchy ones this morning....
Many homosexual people would prefer to associate with other homosexual people.

-Mike

I guess the reason they organize all these parades, bars and what not is because they are the only place a homosexual can go to where they can feel comfortable.
Its really sad but as long as there are ignorant people around that make life hell for Homosexuals then of course they will tend to stick to eachother because only with eachother can they feel comfortable because they are respected under eachother for who they are, and are not seen as "Gays" or "Fags" or what not.
So your generalization that they "prefer" to hang out together is wrong. Its almost as though that is the only place where they can feel respected and not be looked upon as though they are freaks.
Im sure that if ignorance didnt exist. Gays wouldnt need to organize their own parades, as wouldnt lesbians or whatever other groups their may be. Because they would feel comfortable regardless with whom they were with.
Michael

 

[MJ5150]

You make some good points....but is there ANY chance they organize events because they would prefer to hang out with other homosexuals? ANY chance?

There is no ignorance of Irish people in the USA, but they put on a killer party every year on a special day set aside just for them.

-Mike

 

[mz91]

Originally posted by MJ5150
You make some good points....but is there ANY chance they organize events because they would prefer to hang out with other homosexuals? ANY chance?

There is no ignorance of Irish people in the USA, but they put on a killer party every year on a special day set aside just for them.

-Mike

Yea there is a chance that they prefer to hang out with other homosexuals...But again, thats because they are almost forced to because they cant hang out with the rest of us because sadly, most of us see them as something weird or lesser .

Im guessing that the irish celebrate that party for a different reason. i am not sure but wouldnt that party be to celebrate their culture....

Michael

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally posted by MJ5150


"And what is there to "agree" with?"
Another persons lifestyle.

-Mike

Well - you said person - people can have lifestyles - but you can't generalise in this way - that's what's wrong with this statement!

So - quite clearly, lifestyle is not decided entirely by your sexual proclivity.

There are gay people who have decided to live with one life partner and live quiet domestic lives, there are gay people who have chosen to be athletes, there are gay priests, there are many gay actors who have very public lives and many gay people with very private lives you wouldn't notice, etc etc.

The point is my "lifestyle" is not determined by my sexuality - so why should a gay person's be? My lifestyle is mostly affected by my job and how much I can earn - if I won the lottery, it would change completey - but my sexuality wouldn't!!

 

[Coypu]

Well, the sad part in this is that many gay people who complain about being discriminated still eat meat and hate paedophiles. I think this topic should be broadenened even further, hating gay people is only a symptom of a larger desease. The problem lies that most of us base our ideas on tradition. For example : Most people assume killing is wrong. But in reality they have no idea why, or even if it is true.

"the word homophobic is gay" - AC

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by MJ5150
You make some good points....but is there ANY chance they organize events because they would prefer to hang out with other homosexuals? ANY chance?

There is no ignorance of Irish people in the USA, but they put on a killer party every year on a special day set aside just for them.

-Mike

You might want to check the history of the Irish here and in Europe.. Here in the US they were the focus of serious discrimination for a long time. While the holiday has been co-opted much the same as Christmas, Irish pride (instead of shame) had a lot to do with it's celebration early on.

 

[Gia]

Originally posted by Coypu
Well, the sad part in this is that many gay people who complain about being discriminated still (eat meat and) hate paedophiles.

I see what you mean, but surely you can see some distinction between the percieved "badness" (can't think of a better word right now) of homosexuals, and the known, obvious and blatant "badness" of paedophiles.

You can think that homosexuality is a bad thing, or a good thing, or just be neutral about it, but IMO you simply cannot think that paedophilia is anything but wrong.

 

[Gia]

Originally posted by MJ5150
Well, where I live they have gay bars, gay dance clubs, gay nights, gay parades, gay concerts, gay day, gay stores, gay people set up outings for other gays to hang out together, gay social clubs, and other events especially for gay people. After observing these things for years, and seeing the large turnout for them repeatedly, it did not seem idiotic for me to say that gay people would prefer to associate with other gay people.

People have already successfully argued this point, such as mz91, so i feel no need to answer this.


So, I guess you DO know every gay person in the world, and you can matter of factly condemn my comment?


You can guess, but you arre wrong and you know you are. Oh, and when did I ever say that i knew every gay prson in the world?
I hate it when people do this in arguments. Assume another meaning to people's words and guess stupid rhetorical points about them. It's so dismally weak.....


Many homosexual people would prefer to associate with other homosexual people.

-Mike

Change the many to "some homosexual people may" and you'll have your first decent sentance in this whole discussion.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by BrokenAngel
I see what you mean, but surely you can see some distinction between the percieved "badness" (can't think of a better word right now) of homosexuals, and the known, obvious and blatant "badness" of paedophiles.

You can think that homosexuality is a bad thing, or a good thing, or just be neutral about it, but IMO you simply cannot think that paedophilia is anything but wrong.

well, i don't see what he meant. it was pretty offensive to me to compare homosexuality between two consenting adults and pedophilia between an adult and a child not capable of making their own decisions, but then i expect no less but offensiveness from coypu - most of his posts seem targetted as being as offensive as possible (barely) within the usage agreement guidelines.