Why do the session legends all use P basses? (SBL Video Discussion)

[eqvolvorama]

There are lots of pro musicians who do use Alembics and other basses (not Precisions) - thank god they do as half of my favourite music would sound like s*it. Schooldays on a P bass anyone? Oh Stanley sorry we can't accommodate your Alembic as we need half an hour to get the drum sound so please play it on a Precision......... unbelievable!! Even John McVie used an Alembic on some of the world's best selling music.

Come on folks, let's get real.

Let’s not let absolutes get in the way here. Of course Stanley Clarke can play whatever he wants. But that doesn’t mean anyone can. Or should.

I used to run sound for bands. If Stanley Clarke was playing, he’d have all day to get his sound right. He’s Stanley Clarke. Of course, he’d likely have several hours on stage alone if he wanted it.

If I was running sound for a local band opening for the opener, and I had ten minutes to do sound check, I don’t want to waste time getting used to your 18V six string coffee table. I really don’t. It’s far more important to convince the guitarist to turn down and get the monitors right for the singer so he/she doesn’t go out of tune. The audience doesn’t care about the bass nearly as much. If my time is limited, I don’t either. And if you’re paying for my time, neither should you.

I can only imagine recording engineers feel the same way. Does this mean I’m a mediocre sound engineer. Sure, fine. I probably am. But unless you can afford Bob Clearmountain, I’m what you have. And I know I can make a P Bass through a SansAmp sound amazing any day of the week.

 

[TheDialog]

Dude's probably been on more pro sessions than you...just sayin'.

(And before you reply and say how many pro sessions I've played on, that would be none, but I'm also not the one criticizing his tone.)

Haha, I would never reply like that. And when does having an opinion on something get replies like yours? (I'm sure it happens often, just not my style.)
Sean is a fantastic bass player. Always sounds great on tracks and live. Hence, why I labeled this "hot take"...
I just really didn't like the tone he went with for this specific session. Logically, it may have made sense to stick out on the track as the focal point, just wasn't for me.

 

[Bob_Ross]

The only thing a P Bass can't seem to nail is the sound I strive for

We can hang. :beer:

 

[Lionel Albert]

I imagine the next step (OK it's humour or humor, as you want, you know... not serious)...
"Come on don't play a JB it doesn't cut in the mix, try a PB... No no no, it is not natural, an upright bass, but no, it doesn't have any kind of dynamics... I've got something for you.
I was totally wrong, you don't need a PB, no dynamics, no sustains, too many knobs, too many pickups, you don't need wood, think about trees...
All you need is a tuba !!! Yes !!! A tuba, think about the 1920's, it makes sense, why did they play the tuba ? Come on ! It really cut in the mix !
Get a tuba, but a used one, that's important... Tubas nowadays are too shiny, you have to be natural. Listen to the sound..."

In the studio : "We love tuba because when they play they don't talk, they don't have a stupid smile, they don't blink when they play, they don't move their head. It's quite noisy but peaceful, can you hear ? They don't talk about gear, haircut... and things... hey I know a man... In a session, I played there, that's a badass, yeah, I love the pickups, look at the body it commes from a tree made in wood... Look I'm James Jamerson, we play like him, come on... Tuba is peace !"

 

[N4860]

I once recorded an album that was produced by a guy that has produced many platinum records. He didn't recognize the bass I had so made me switch to a stingray 5 they had in the studio and then just said to make sure all the knobs were maxed out. Thought it was odd to have everything boosted on the active preamp but who am I to argue?

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

I don't think it's a "P Bass or else" in most commercial studios. One of my best friends and bass instructor is a top Nashville session bassist. He has one P Bass, a Japanese '57 reissue. He uses it on a lot of sessions, but he also frequently records with his Sadowsky 5 and Tyler 5.

I'm not a Nashville session player, but I have done session work in my field, southern gospel music, and a modern 5 string is used for those at least 50% of the time. And I've seen more jazz basses played on SG sessions than Precisions. In that style of music we are still in the bright & tight sound. That's the sound that usually works for SG songs. And a 5 string is a must on many sessions.

Same goes for modern urban gospel and new country and modern jazz.
This Pbass favoring is very genre specific.

 

[Max Blasto]

Wanted to discuss this video w/you guys.


I can relate to the problems with the active 5 string that the engineers seemed to want to fix. As it was essentially the issues I was experiencing that led to me trading/selling said bass for a P Bass.

Because there are many sound engineers who don’t want to be bothered with bass guitar. They learned one way to do it and dislike learning anything else.

Having said that, there are many who can successfully record any bass guitar. If you are recording, do your research: ask the engineer what he likes and what he thinks about alternatives to the P bass. If you play a Thunderbird or a Rick and and you don’t get an enthusiastic reaction to the sonic possibilities, start interviews for another.

 

[drTSTingray]

Let’s not let absolutes get in the way here. Of course Stanley Clarke can play whatever he wants. But that doesn’t mean anyone can. Or should.

I used to run sound for bands. If Stanley Clarke was playing, he’d have all day to get his sound right. He’s Stanley Clarke. Of course, he’d likely have several hours on stage alone if he wanted it.

If I was running sound for a local band opening for the opener, and I had ten minutes to do sound check, I don’t want to waste time getting used to your 18V six string coffee table. I really don’t. It’s far more important to convince the guitarist to turn down and get the monitors right for the singer so he/she doesn’t go out of tune. The audience doesn’t care about the bass nearly as much. If my time is limited, I don’t either. And if you’re paying for my time, neither should you.

I can only imagine recording engineers feel the same way. Does this mean I’m a mediocre sound engineer. Sure, fine. I probably am. But unless you can afford Bob Clearmountain, I’m what you have. And I know I can make a P Bass through a SansAmp sound amazing any day of the week.

Stanley wasn't always that famous - but still used an Alembic (and an upright). I suspect appeasing the sound man was the least of his worries and in any case, an Alembic is a piece of craftsmanship which enables a far more clear bass sound. The very idea it's less recordable than a Precision is daft - it even has a balanced XLR out!

I'm very doubtful you would have a problem amplifying any professional bass sound. Fact is some basses are better at certain styles than others - if you told me I'd got to use a Precision to accommodate your live sound engineering I'd ask you how you planned to amplify through FOH the sizzle and also crystal clear slap and pop sound I use in the music I play - fact is we're not all playing 8th note rock or root and fifth....(thank the Lord for diversity)

 

[bassgrackle]

SBL is a marketing company that also teaches bass lessons. And there a good one at that. They got all of you to watch the video.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Imagine a sound engineer who could only make a Stratocaster work in the mix. And if anyone turned up with a Tele or a Les Paul or something... "Oh dear... How are we gonna fix that in the mix? Why can't you just play a Strat like all the other guys do?"

Now, how long would that engineer stay in business?

"Sorry, you're going to have to rewrite the lyrics of your song ; I can't get hard consonants, or plosives to work in a mix".

 

[LBS-bass]

"Sorry, you're going to have to rewrite the lyrics of your song ; I can't get hard consonants, or plosives to work in a mix".

I think a lot of people are missing the point. The point isn't whether or not the engineers might be able to tweak your signature sound and make it work. Any good engineer would be able to figure out a way to do that. But does your producer care enough about the way the bass sounds in yesterday's top 40 hit making machine to want to spend an extra $500 on that? Nope. Nope. Nope. Nowhere in the early history of hits did anyone ever think that tweaking the bass was what was going to make the song a hit. The money, to their thinking was always in the melody, the vocal, the soloing instruments.

Now we can argue the wisdom of that, and I'm not saying that this thinking was right or wrong. The recording industry has always been driven by money and they were never going to spend an extra dime making your favorite bass sound good when they could get someone in to play a generic bass line that needed no extra processing to fit in the mix.

 

[Chad Michael]

via the producer, in the studio:

Geddy Lee - "You don't sound like Steve Perry"
Peter Gabriel "You don't sound like Steve Perry"
Donald Fagen "You don't sound like Steve Perry"
Michael McDonald "You don't sound like Steve Perry"
Eddie Vedder "you don't sound like Steve Perry"

Not a fan of the 'your bass must sound exactly like this'.

To me it is sad that electric bass could only sound one way.
This borders on history that I am not proud of...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Wanted to discuss this video w/you guys.


I can relate to the problems with the active 5 string that the engineers seemed to want to fix. As it was essentially the issues I was experiencing that led to me trading/selling said bass for a P Bass.

They just record really well, plain and simple. If you spent as much time as I have recording, you would understand.

 

[Bass Viking]

If I was running sound for a local band opening for the opener, and I had ten minutes to do sound check, I don’t want to waste time getting used to your 18V six string coffee table. I really don’t. It’s far more important to convince the guitarist to turn down

And since that will eat up about 8 minutes, that leaves the drums 1 minute, vocals 45 seconds, and 15 seconds to dial in the bass tone.

 

[Rib 13]

They just record really well, plain and simple. If you spent as much time as I have recording, you would understand.

Its possible I have as many, or more, hours as you -- I don't own a P-bass....However, I have several basses that do P-tone fine....A Precision voicing isnt rocket science: its a series-wired pickup in that P sweetspot....thats it....many basses can do that...we have the ad nauseum discussion on here about soloing pickups and P/Js with just the P --- yes, under a giant microscope, they all sound different than a P but, at that power, even P basses themselves sound different from each other.....for general recording purposes and for folks who arent bass players looking for a certain thing, many basses will get P-tone that dont say Fender Precision on them

Im not knocking P basses and I dont hate them: they have a certain cool and mojo....... unfortunately, cool looks and mojo usually dont get captured to tape

Heres a recording Im on from many moons ago (the 90s!)....I thought it needed a classic P-tone....I used my G&L ASAT, mid pickup soloed in Series

 

[stringthrough]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[el_Bajo_Verde]

So when they need a 5, do they just find a 5-string P?

I hear so much music now with bass that goes below E and it sounds great

 

[socialleper]

Discussions like this are way I'm so glad I never bothered with session or cover work.
"How do we fix your tone?"
You can start by F'ing yourself.

 

[Lionel Albert]

So when they need a 5, do they just find a 5-string P?

I hear so much music now with bass that goes below E and it sounds great

On session John Patitucci plays a double neck Precision Bass (BEAD & ADGC), he said it was the best solution.
And for chords a P Bass BEGC.

 

[Rib 13]

So when they need a 5, do they just find a 5-string P?

I hear so much music now with bass that goes below E and it sounds great

a lot of basses i hear these days arent even played by bass players.....theres great bass VSTi instruments out there (unfortunately) .....ask anybody with Reason that uses Native Instruments and that is familiar with their plugs..theres other great plugins too, like the Ample sound stuff....the key is the programmer playing lines the way a bass player would do it as opposed to like a keyboard player, like this guy

one of the reasons why i dont get near as much work in the studio as i did in the old days