Why do we tube lovers love tubes?

[will33]

Anybody other than me think those amps are strangely similair, right down to the jacks, knobs and switches? Makes you wonder if there isn't some one giant chinese amp maker throwing us all under the bus. So much for Sadowsky being highend stuff. Ya know, I've been accused of being suspicious, sometimes pessimistic, suspect, wary, jaded and on and on. Sucks to know I'm usually right.

 

[Nic.]

For some reason tubes seem to be alive in the sense that the sound I hear (whether playing soft or hard, loud or quiet) is similar to that which I get from a dedicated compressor, only one that could adjust itself with every stroke of the strings (if one could do that). The problem with a compressor to simulate a tube amp is that when playing quietly or softly I'd have to crank the compressor and then when playing louder or harder I'd then have to dial it back. An all tube amp just seems (to me) that it does that for me on the fly.

So it appears to me to compress, yet does so dynamically, as if I was fiddling with a compressor on the fly while playing. DVC...Dynamic Variable Compression if you will. NOTE: That's not a real term, I just made it up but that is what a tube amp seems to do for me, and that's what the OP was asking.

Perhaps... linking a compressor to an envelope? So the compression ratio goes up and down with the signal?

 

[Mudfuzz]

Nice thread you have here Jimmy, guys.

To answer: for me yes it is sound but dynamics even more so. The way a tube power section reacts is one of my favorite things in the world. I have never played through a SS amp that did "it" for me.

I have six tube bass amps ATM by the way
Mesa Boogie 400+
Orange Thunderverb 200
Ampeg SVT CL
Sunn ((O))) 200S
Music Man HD130
Fender Bassman 20

 

[JimmyM]

wow, all you need now is a hiwatt!

 

[gbarchus]

will33

"Anybody other than me think those amps are strangely similair, right down to the jacks, knobs and switches? Makes you wonder if there isn't some one giant chinese amp maker throwing us all under the bus. So much for Sadowsky being highend stuff."

Owning both the Eden and the Sadowsky, I can say, Yes they are quite similar especially if you look at the rear. But, more in the power section. And, even there, they are using different tubes (EL34s in the Sadowsky and 6550s in the Eden) which gives them a different tone and sensitivity to dynamics. However the preamps are considerably different in the way they interact with gain, the Eden being much more active and the Sadowsky more "musical."

They are both made by the European manufacturer, Koch, not Chinese. Although I am quite satisfied with the sound I get from either, I would still like to have a Reeves and another SVT. I think they all sound different yet produce that luscious tube sound.

Gale

 

[tombowlus]

Here's the Sadowsky naked:

It's nice to see my carpet thrown into a good tube amp discussion every now and then.

 

[MAMMOTHvolume]

Nice thread you have here Jimmy, guys.

To answer: for me yes it is sound but dynamics even more so. The way a tube power section reacts is one of my favorite things in the world. I have never played through a SS amp that did "it" for me.

I have six tube bass amps ATM by the way
Mesa Boogie 400+
Orange Thunderverb 200
Ampeg SVT CL
Sunn ((O))) 200S
Music Man HD130
Fender Bassman 20

nice list dude, i should take some pictures of my pile. At the minute i've got a
marshall 2001
marshall 100watt super bass
roost slave i added a preamp to
2X mesa 400+s
a reel to reel i converted into an amp
2X 200watt amps i've built (prototype mammothsound ones)

should make a list of all the stuff i've had in the past aswell, you really can't beat valves

 

[JimmyM]

all i have is a 69 svt and 64 b-15n. i feel so inadequate.

 

[rodl2005]

I feel like the traitor amongst us..... I just got rid of my AMPEG V4BH for a MESA WALKABOUT SCOUT 12" combo(LOVE it Btw) But STILL have my '91 SVTII & Traynor YBA200 - the YBA200 just does it all for me. Sure not quite the amp the SVT is, but for MOST of my applications, I was favoring it over the V4BH...so ..... & I had always been intrigued by the MESA WA scout, & It didn't let me down. I've not used my LMII since I got it. The LMII still comes to every gig in a case- JUST IN CASE

 

[johnk_10]

all i have is a 69 svt and 64 b-15n. i feel so inadequate.

well, there's nothing inadequate about your playing Jimmy, and IMO, that's ALOT more important.

and also IMO, those two are the best two to own anyway.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I use a tube preamp... but power amp? For guitar, yes. For bass? No.

 

[Mudfuzz]

I use a tube preamp... but power amp? For guitar, yes. For bass? No.

Where as I have a amp with a SS pre and a tube power section

 

[JimmyM]

well, there's nothing inadequate about your playing Jimmy, and IMO, that's ALOT more important.

and also IMO, those two are the best two to own anyway.

right on, john. they definitely are the two best to own. and thanks for the playing compliment (right back atcha). i feel adequate now.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I am gonnahave to say its the transformers. Anyone that spends much time looking at recording gear is bound to notice the popularity of transformer based mic preamps. These can be tube but are more commonly solidstate boxes. With an input and an output transformer. It's no secret that the transformer is what adds "heft" to the signal. Using gainstaging you can get quite a lot of largeness to your signal without audibly distorting. Though I am sure an audio precision might say its quite distorted.
Now there arent a lot of solidstate bass amps with transformers in them, but pretty much every tube bass amp has one for the output. I guess it is possible to make a transformerless tubeamp, never seen one though.

 

[PolkaHero]

I am gonnahave to say its the transformers. Anyone that spends much time looking at recording gear is bound to notice the popularity of transformer based mic preamps. These can be tube but are more commonly solidstate boxes. With an input and an output transformer. It's no secret that the transformer is what adds "heft" to the signal. Using gainstaging you can get quite a lot of largeness to your signal without audibly distorting. Though I am sure an audio precision might say its quite distorted.
Now there arent a lot of solidstate bass amps with transformers in them, but pretty much every tube bass amp has one for the output. I guess it is possible to make a transformerless tubeamp, never seen one though.

+1

The SVT actually has three transformers. Power, output, and a smaller separate one just for the tubes!

Maybe there was some merit to what my former bandleader used to say about heavier amps sounding better, Crown Macrotechs he always used as an example.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

+1

The SVT actually has three transformers. Power, output, and a smaller separate one just for the tubes!

Maybe there was some merit to what my former bandleader used to say about heavier amps sounding better, Crown Macrotechs he always used as an example.

IIRC Most tube amps incorporate the third transformer (heater?) into a tap on the power transformer.

I am very curious about the Warwick Hellborg stuff. I would think a solidstate pre with a transformer front end and transformer output has a good chance of sounding tubey!

BTW a long time ago I had one of Hellborgs books of bass arpeggios and such. It certainly influenced my note choices for a while!

 

[johnk_10]

IMO, while a transformer, specifically an input transformer in this case, can make a preamp (or amp) yield some similarities to a tube amp, for me, all of the necessity for an input X-former went out the window when i got my amek M3000 console 15 years ago. it has about 1/2 & 1/2 tranformer and transformerless inputs on it, and while the transformer inputs sound huge, smooth and beautiful, the transformerless discrete inputs sound the biggest, fattest, and punchiest of the two types, and actually more like a tube mic pre/line amp than the tranny ones do.

so IMO, it really depends on the circuit design and the components used in it.

 

[gbarchus]

"It's nice to see my carpet thrown into a good tube amp discussion every now and then."

Some day I'll find the photo of my own!

Gale

 

[tony_clifton]

I like the way they compress. No need for a compressor to remove volume spikes when I turn the preamp gain right before the point the signal gets dirty.
Regarding tone, I can't hear any difference between a good tube amp and a good hybrid, or even a good solid state amp. Not the kind of differences to be able to tell tube from SS. I feel a difference in responsiveness though, but I'll play any amp if I like the big picture.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I am gonnahave to say its the transformers. Anyone that spends much time looking at recording gear is bound to notice the popularity of transformer based mic preamps. These can be tube but are more commonly solidstate boxes. With an input and an output transformer. It's no secret that the transformer is what adds "heft" to the signal. Using gainstaging you can get quite a lot of largeness to your signal without audibly distorting. Though I am sure an audio precision might say its quite distorted.
Now there arent a lot of solidstate bass amps with transformers in them, but pretty much every tube bass amp has one for the output. I guess it is possible to make a transformerless tubeamp, never seen one though.

Does it matter what kind of transformers, or how they're used? Or is it just the presence of transformers that improves the sound?