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Why do we tube lovers love tubes?

#301
"Are there any rack-mounted tube pre-amps or pre+power combinations that provide the tubey tactile spaciousness and dynamics of an Ampeg B15, SVT, Mesa 400+, Fender 300, etc?"

See, this is what some of the people are trying to say: If it's not all-tube, it can't sound like all-tube.

Can you get most of the way there? Well, I tried for years using an all-tube Alembic F2-B preamp with a variety of power amps. It sounded really good, but I finally went back to all-tube. Something was sorely missing.

What I cannot understand is how some people believe they can get most of the sound using some kind of modeling. There's a reason all-tube amps are expensive and you can't put that on a chip. How can a $200 stomp box sound like a $2000 all-tube amp?

GAle
 
#302
johnk_10 said:
IMO, most people that haven't spent a great deal of time on stage playing with a tube amp in a band don't really know what alot of us are talking about. it's one thing to sit in your living room or in a music store, and listen to one, but another thing entirely, when one is pushing some air behind you in a full band mix and feeling its response. IME, no hybrid has ever captured the same touch-sensitive dynamics and the feeling of being 'connected' to your amp that a tube amp does inherently, and i feel that i still own enough high end tube pre channel strips/SS poweramps to determine that.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean.

But I will add the only hybrid that's got that feel/dynamics/immediacy/response/connection thing going for me is my Genz-Benz Shuttle 6. I've compared it live to my SABDDI through a Peavey DPC-1000, Ampeg SVP Pro through the same Peavey, AMP BH-420, Eden WT-400 and a few of my old Traynor tube amps.
 
#303
gbarchus said:
"Are there any rack-mounted tube pre-amps or pre+power combinations that provide the tubey tactile spaciousness and dynamics of an Ampeg B15, SVT, Mesa 400+, Fender 300, etc?"

See, this is what some of the people are trying to say: If it's not all-tube, it can't sound like all-tube.

Can you get most of the way there? Well, I tried for years using an all-tube Alembic F2-B preamp with a variety of power amps. It sounded really good, but I finally went back to all-tube. Something was sorely missing.

What I cannot understand is how some people believe they can get most of the sound using some kind of modeling. There's a reason all-tube amps are expensive and you can't put that on a chip. How can a $200 stomp box sound like a $2000 all-tube amp?

GAle
Click to expand...

Perhaps I didn't phrase my question clearly enough: I wasn't asking about non-tube gear. I was asking about rack-mounted tube gear. :)
 
#304
I've always wanted to make and play around with an analog tube emulation circuit using JFETs. (Well, it's probably a lot quicker now to do that with DSP, and easier to experiment with different transfer functions.) That's just one of many circuits I have in mind to have fun with, though.
 
#306
johnk_10 said:
For me it is mostly in their response. To me, tube amps are much more touch sensitive capturing every nuance from the slightest touch to the hardest bang. Most of them seem to be alot more transparent in their tone as well. Every solid state amp that i have is a little bit "veiled" , meaning they seem to have a "layer" between your bass and what is coming out of the speakers, making tube amps feel alot punchier.

Even though there are many really good sounding SS amps (and i own a few), they all seem a bit synthetic and processed sounding to me.

2 cents.........
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with every single word.
That's what I experience everytime I A/B my Thunderfunk and my V4B. The TF is the best SS head I've ever heard BUT it's on sale since the day I bought the Ampeg.
 
#307
gbarchus said:
What I cannot understand is how some people believe they can get most of the sound using some kind of modeling. There's a reason all-tube amps are expensive and you can't put that on a chip. How can a $200 stomp box sound like a $2000 all-tube amp?
Click to expand...
gale, i'm not going to sit here and tell you that you can get the weightiness or the dynamic range of a tube amp in a plugin or a stompbox modeler like the vt. however, i will tell you that you can cop the sounds almost to the letter. i have done several recordings of the real thing vs a vt and it never fails to amaze me.

but on gigs i use tube amps mic'ed, and if i were to record in a great studio with $1000+ mics and an amazing board, i'd always bring the b-15 before i'd use the vt direct.
 
#308
Modeling can sound pretty good. I have used it on some recordings as well. It serves the purpose of being able to record guitars or bass direct, then adjust the amps tone to fit the song. This is awesome when you have a busy mix!
OTOH modeling amps/pedals/plugins just arent the real thing. They are only some dsp engineers perception of that amp. Some of the really good ones may get close for 90% of the tone, but leave out the idiosyncracies that we like (or ins some cases dont like).
One kind of off the wall example is that you cant stick you bass/guitars pickup right up next to the transformer and get crazy feedback.
There are also some settings that the dsp engineer might not consider normal settings, but that are used by bassists all the time.
 
#309
JimmyM said:
gale, i'm not going to sit here and tell you that you can get the weightiness or the dynamic range of a tube amp in a plugin or a stompbox modeler like the vt. however, i will tell you that you can cop the sounds almost to the letter. i have done several recordings of the real thing vs a vt and it never fails to amaze me.

but on gigs i use tube amps mic'ed, and if i were to record in a great studio with $1000+ mics and an amazing board, i'd always bring the b-15 before i'd use the vt direct.
Click to expand...

I'd be very interested in hearing your clips. Can you provide a link? :)

Can you emulate the spaciousness and sensitivity of an all-tube rig with the VT, or are they mostly about matching frequency balance and/or timbre? Or, perhaps, the sound of tubes as they become increasingly saturated?
 
#310
Jazzdogg said:
I'd be very interested in hearing your clips. Can you provide a link? :)
Click to expand...
sorry j-dogg, they got bounced off the server i had them on, and now i can't find them. if i get time tomorrow, i'll record new clips. can't right now because the wife's asleep.
Can you emulate the spaciousness and sensitivity of an all-tube rig with the VT, or are they mostly about matching frequency balance and/or timbre? Or, perhaps, the sound of tubes as they become increasingly saturated?
Click to expand...
the bolded part. no way you get the spaciousness and sensitivity. but for $150, it's about as close as you can get.

it's about time i rocked a new tube challenge, though, especially in light of all this stuff being talked about lately. personally, i find the vt a wonder pedal and it will definitely be tough to tell the difference. however,
in the same room it's definitely noticeable.
 
#317
here, i'll post it so we can all see it without having to click:

EDIT: oops...better not...as big as it posted, might be considered a little too much for the kiddies.

anyway, how did you get that pic of my wife???

:D
 

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