Why do we tube lovers love tubes?

[BobXboB]

Lots of reasons to be skeptical based on psychological aspects, but I question your definition of experts.

That's why I put it in quotes and actually didn't define it In this case an expert is someone who will boast about their abilities and respond with ad hominems when questioned instead of backing up their original claims. An "expert" will never say things like post a clip and I'll tell you if it's tube or not.

 

[Kindness]

An "expert" will never say things like post a clip and I'll tell you if it's tube or not.

I would never say that either. I don't think is is much to be learned about playing through an amp by listening to a sound clip. That's why I don't shop for gear listening to clips. I would ask you to let me play through the amp with one of my bands and let me tell you whether or not I like it.

 

[RickenBoogie]

I think I know a good sound if I can smell it.

 

[SubXero]

I don't have a tube amp but I have a tube pre-amp if that counts. I like it because it adds warmth to my sound. I've been tempted to try something like a sansamp with "tube emulation" or what not, but I dunno, there's just something about those glowing tubes...

 

[Mastermold]

Warm tone is how I describe it. Sounds "natural" or something.

 

[TSanders]

And just because its worth saying; If there wasnt a sonic difference between tubes and SS amps, why are there so many companies that make a SS piece of gear with "tube emulation" or something along those lines?

Ive never seen a tube amp with a SS emulation button!!!

 

[EricF]

I don't have a tube amp but I have a tube pre-amp if that counts. I like it because it adds warmth to my sound. I've been tempted to try something like a sansamp with "tube emulation" or what not, but I dunno, there's just something about those glowing tubes...

I hate to tell you, but a tube pre is still missing a big part of the magic. I usually find the distortion of preamp tubes to be quite gritty and sometimes brittle sounding. The tube power section in an all-tube amp is where most of the real magic happens. When you experience it for yourself, you'll know it.

 

[BobXboB]

And just because its worth saying; If there wasnt a sonic difference between tubes and SS amps, why are there so many companies that make a SS piece of gear with "tube emulation" or something along those lines?

Because people will pay money for that. Like you said no one wants to pay for SS simulation. Same principal that gives us diet cookies, we buy what we want to believe.

In my opinion if you can't tell by listening only there's a chance you may not be able to tell the difference.

Here's one possible scenario. A company finds out people like the idea of tubes since their heros use them, they research what the perception of tubes is. Then they design a SS amp that meets that perception and slap a tube in the preamp and then say the tube makes it sound that way.

 

[black_labb]

Because people will pay money for that. Like you said no one wants to pay for SS simulation. Same principal that gives us diet cookies, we buy what we want to believe.

In my opinion if you can't tell by listening only there's a chance you may not be able to tell the difference.

Here's one possible scenario. A company finds out people like the idea of tubes since their heros use them, they research what the perception of tubes is. Then they design a SS amp that meets that perception and slap a tube in the preamp and then say the tube makes it sound that way.

there is a fender guitar amp that has a tube in the pre "to give it that warm sound" the tube is actually used as a diode in the clipping channel, doesnt even get the voltage that it would. they use the tube just for advertisement, and they dont have to get a high voltage transformer. people like the idea of tubes. i like that bassists actually consider solid state. there arent many well designed ss guitar amps, because not many guitarists will spend their money on a ss amp, because they assume its crap. i feel that if your using pedals for your tone, the amp doesnt give too much to the tone, and ss would be just as good. the preamp tube often gets overdriven and it sounds bad with pedals.

 

[TSanders]

Because people will pay money for that. Like you said no one wants to pay for SS simulation. Same principal that gives us diet cookies, we buy what we want to believe.

In my opinion if you can't tell by listening only there's a chance you may not be able to tell the difference.

Here's one possible scenario. A company finds out people like the idea of tubes since their heros use them, they research what the perception of tubes is. Then they design a SS amp that meets that perception and slap a tube in the preamp and then say the tube makes it sound that way.

Nice spin on it, but Im going to have to disagree....

 

[megadan]

They just sound better. End of story. You can go on about specs all day and night, but at the end of the day, people are willing to haul them around, even though they are heavier, more complex, often more expensive, and an out of date technology. The sound rules above all else.

It doesn't need to be explained (all though I like to try), it's just a simple fact that some things give more pleasure than others. Hot tubes are one of those things.

 

[pedro]

They just sound better. End of story. You can go on about specs all day and night, but at the end of the day, people are willing to haul them around, even though they are heavier, more complex, often more expensive, and an out of date technology. The sound rules above all else.

It doesn't need to be explained (all though I like to try), it's just a simple fact that some things give more pleasure than others. Hot tubes are one of those things.

Works for me. Thanks.

 

[fretlessman71]

I like knowing that I can tell the difference between Fenders, Marshalls, Laneys, Vox, and Ampeg tube amps just by the way they smell. Ever notice that?

 

[mikopita]

I find it easier to find a meaty yet articulate tone that cuts through the mix with my tube amp. The SS amps I've used/use all need to be tweaked a great deal more with a full band to help me feel satisfied with the tone. I guess you could say for me that tubes are more plug-and-play (for me anyway).

 

[JimmyM]

Because people will pay money for that. Like you said no one wants to pay for SS simulation. Same principal that gives us diet cookies, we buy what we want to believe.

In my opinion if you can't tell by listening only there's a chance you may not be able to tell the difference.

What's it to you? I don't care what anyone else uses or whether I can tell what amp they use. -I- can tell.

 

[metron]

Please keep in mind that I am the least technical person on this forum. With that in mind, my reply to your question is, because the clean tube sound is different and sounds better (to me) than the clean SS amp. BTW, I am aware that 'distortion' has a different definition in engineering terms. But my reference to 'clean' and 'distorted' is in a layman's commonly used version.

Hey Pedro! I should be more specific. I see a lot of people discuss merits of clean tube amplification which is what doesnt make sense to me. IMO the more "truly clean" sounding it is the more indistinguishable from ss it becomes. My Demeter 201 pre and to a somewhat lesser extent the DB 680 I had sound like ss gear to me. They sound nearly indistinguishable live and recorded from the two all ss Raven Labs pres I have used.

I use old Ampegs for everything - clean and dirty sounds, but the discussion here is about linear amplification. I think old Ampegs have heavy coloration on the signal even in what is perceived as the clean range of volume. I think this thread is basically asking why do we like that coloration? It is more or less some harmonic distortion of the input signal. And that is why I use them!

 

[BetterBottomEnd]

Interesting article, Corey. Read like a school paper, but had some interesting info.

BBE, wouldn't the boosting of odd order harmonics in SS amps also a form of distortion? If not, why not? Would these even order harmonics also be present in a SS amp that sounds tubey, such as the LMII? Or is it not possible?

That confuses me, too. I usually don't care for SS amps near as much as tube, but that LMII is a major exception. Despite Fdeck goofing on me about my test, most people could tell the SWR from the LMII and B-15. Not so much with the LMII.

First definition for distort off google is:To deliberately exaggerate or manipulate an image to the extreme. This is often done to draw attention to a feeling or mood of the work of art.

The distinction between soft and hard clipping is very important. It's the reason 100 "tube watts" is so much louder the 100 "SS watts" The wattage rating is what the amp can produce with less then a certain percentage of distortion.

Since a tube distorts gradually it adds pleasing levels of harmonics. Maybe that harmonically rich signal is what you like to hear. I've heard talk about about even and odd order harmonics sounding better and tube and SS amps producing a different series but I don't really know too much about that so I'll defer to people who know what they're talking about.

I'll return to my original statement compression and distortion are why even at a clean setting you prefer tube amps. Just ask Bill Fitz about how essentially flawed some of the speaker designs we love are because of the distortion they produce. The bigger question we like the sound of distortion even at low levels.

 

[pedro]

I use old Ampegs for everything - clean and dirty sounds, but the discussion here is about linear amplification. I think old Ampegs have heavy coloration on the signal even in what is perceived as the clean range of volume. I think this thread is basically asking why do we like that coloration? It is more or less some harmonic distortion of the input signal. And that is why I use them!

I also use Ampeg and agree that there is a coloration to them which I like. I was simply referring to distortion in the layman's terms where it means fuzz kind of sound.

 

[Tom Howland]

Tube amps are just warmer, bigger, more headroom.

To me, they are more 3-D.

 

[WoodyG3]

My question to some of you people is, when you first play a tube amp or compare it to a SS counterpart, isn't it possible that you just think it sounds better in the ways you've described, because that's what you've been told, and expect, a tube amp would do? Surely there has to be a large psychological aspect to this tube vs SS argument

Blasphemy!