Why does a "PJ" configuration sound so refined and elegant?

[39-Bassist]

I play with 2 Dean USA PJ custom shop basses and put in a Duncan SPB-1 and a STK-2b
and have found that those 2 pickups work VERY well on the smooth sounding tones I like.
Nice P bass punch but with the smoothed out upper mids of the J pickup. Just my 2 cents worth....

 

[pgolliher]

I love P/J. Preferably in a V/V/T configuration.

Me too, both of my electric basses are P/J pick ups V/V/T controls.

I really like the jazz pick up full, the P pick-up rolled off slightly. It gives the bite/growl of the Jazz with some bottom end from the P.

Just thinking about it makes me want to go play right now. Darn work....

 

[electracoyote]

No, the P is in the same spot. it's just an added J.

Ah, thanks, I think this is usually the case, though I'm certain I've seen PJ's where the P was moved slightly toward the neck.

So you can solo the P and it sounds like a P.

This part I get.

You can solo the J and it sounds like a J.

As a player who falls into the vast majority of Jazz bass players who would rarely if ever play with the bridge solo'd, this part I don't get.

Anyway, it's not really a debate. You either like a PJ config and find it useful, or you don't. I applaud anyone who finds their tone and is happy with it.

 

[acebase62]

Ah, thanks, I think this is usually the case, though I'm certain I've seen PJ's where the P was moved slightly toward the neck.

The J routing on my Warmoth PJ is closer to the neck than usual J bass 60s or 70s locations.

The J pickup does sound a little thicker as a result. I sometimes run the J on full, and add P as needed.

 

[Razzmatazz]

I have a P/J active set (v/v/t) on my P bass clone 4 strings. I really like the sound of both PU up full with the tone rolled off about 20%. Sometimes I prefer a mid scooped EQ and the P/J sound just goes so well with that IMO. On occasions I use the P soloed but never the J alone, I just don't like the sound of it much on its own.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

As a player who falls into the vast majority of Jazz bass players who would rarely if ever play with the bridge solo'd, this part I don't get.

You need a nice fat sounding bridge pickup.

But otherwise it's a P with the option for some extra brightness.

 

[groove pump]

My most recent acquisition is a custom P/J with EMG's and a b-t preamp on board. Love it because it's "different" from my passive parts Jazz with DiMarzio Ultra J's.

I suppose the term "elegant" is sort of relevant as far as the blended sound goes, but when I solo the P in that bass, I need to be careful where I stand because Godzilla comes out to play! Without the J pickup even partially blended in to get some of that phase cancellation, that full P tone is something.

I appreciate how J-bass players like the different tones that can be goosed out of that layout, but I've been very pleasantly surprised with the range of tone I can cover with this P/J. Sure, it's cheating a little when I compare a passive J to an active P/J, but I honestly get three different tones with this bass that are quite useful for me; full P, both pickups full on (blend dead center), or the blend set half way between dead center and solo P.

For the record, I should reassure all concerned parties that my relationship with my Jazz is only stronger with this new stable mate around. The P/J is sizzle-lean, but it's not the warm cozy blanket that my Jazz has always been and will be for the foreseeable future. Carry on...

 

[floatingaxe]

Is it the P, or the P location (sweet spot?)?
Could you get a similar effect by putting a J or MM pup in the same location?

 

[Rutherford_Fan]

Is it the P, or the P location (sweet spot?)?
Could you get a similar effect by putting a J or MM pup in the same location?

It couldn't be achieved with a single coil pickup IMO. And even a MM pickup in that spot wouldn't be the same as the wide P pickup. It requires humbucking properties, position in the sweet spot, and wide aperture.

 

[jmlee]

Guild Pilot basses also had the P/J configuration, but with the P pickup changed so that the GD pickup is further from the bridge than the EA pickup. I just held my Pilot up against my '68 P-bass and the P-pickup is smack on the sweet spot for the fender, just reversed as noted. I'm not sure there's any particular advantage to the P-pickup reversal (it was the other way around in early single pickup Pilots). But the P/J combo is sweet in this instrument, as it was in a MIJ Aerodyne J-bass I used to own.

 

[floatingaxe]

It couldn't be achieved with a single coil pickup IMO. And even a MM pickup in that spot wouldn't be the same as the wide P pickup. It requires humbucking properties, position in the sweet spot, and wide aperture.

I don't want to take the discussion too far off course, but it seems to be important...
I understand the benefits of humbucking in a single pup, but please explain "wide aperture".

 

[bongomania]

It just means that the individual coils that make up the hum-bucking pair are physically not right next to each other. It is just like the spacing-apart of two single-coil J pups, but on a smaller scale.

 

[floatingaxe]

It just means that the individual coils that make up the hum-bucking pair are physically not right next to each other. It is just like the spacing-apart of two single-coil J pups, but on a smaller scale.

OK. That makes sense.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I'm not sure there's any particular advantage to the P-pickup reversal (it was the other way around in early single pickup Pilots).

A reversed P is more balanced sounding. On a normal P bass, as you play across the strings, the E-A strings sound different from the D-G strings. When you reverse the two coils, the D-G strings are fuller sounding, and the E-A strings are a little higher sounding, so they blend together better.

IMO that's the way fender should have done it. But back then they wanted the treble strings to be brighter, and bass strings to be deeper. They also angled their pickups on Teles and Strats, and as with the P bass, those guitars sound better with the pickup angled the other way.

On a Strat, the treble strings get very thin and screechy on the treble pickup. Part of these reason why Fenders and G&L guitars are so bright is that Leo was hard of hearing. He made the Musicman guitars so bright that no one bought them!

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I don't want to take the discussion too far off course, but it seems to be important...
I understand the benefits of humbucking in a single pup, but please explain "wide aperture".

Aperture is the string sensing area of the pickup. A single coil senses the strings at a single narrow point. This gives a bright tone. A regular dual coil humbucker senses the strings in two locations, and then sums that signal together. This tends to reinforce the lows and mids and cancels some of the top end. This gives humbuckers a fatter smoother tone. Musicman humbuckers are very bright because they are fairly low impedance pickups.

A split coil P bass pickup is in actuality two single coils, because none of the strings are sensed by both coils. This is true of any split coil pickup. They sound a little different because the inductance is different, but they sense the strings exactly the same way a single coil pickup does.

This is my chart that shows the aperture of my pickups. This will illustrate the idea. A narrow aperture humbucker will sound brighter than a wide aperture hum bucker, which tends to be smoother sounding.

 

[floatingaxe]

I've heard about single coil humbuckers that sound like a P type design but placed end-to-end instead of overlapping and placed in one housing. Why wouldn't these be more popular?
I've also heard of stacked humbuckers; they should have a narrow aperture, right?
Again, not trying to hijack the thread, but trying to determine if the "P" sound that we are talking about in the P/Js is pup design or placement.
I agree with the OP, my first bass is a cheap P/J and even though everything on it is bottom line it has a sound quality that I like.

 

[Aussie Player]

I found a 1995 MIM P bass in mint unplayed condition in a pawn shop. It was fitted with a SD Qtr Pounder and BA 2 bridge, in yellowed Olympic White with Tort guard.

I had a Stacked Humbucker SD Jazz Pup fitted, together with 1960 style Jazz stacked vol and tone CTS pots so no additional holes were needed in the guard .

It would take an aweful lot of money to make a better bass.

 

[Bongolation]

Aperture is the string sensing area of the pickup...

I liked your explanation, thanks!

 

[Thundar]

If we can term the PJ configuration yet a third option, and some people like that option, that's great. But it's not the best of both worlds, it is in reality neither of both worlds, it is a seperate entity all unto itself (unless you solo the split P, but what's the point of that? and I think it's in a different spot as well).

But if the PJ is your tone, I am sincerely happy for you.

Amen! I'm not a big fan of the single P sound, and when I hear a set jazz pickups all I can think is "man... that is missing something" ...that certain "grind" that is characteristic of the P/J combination.

 

[Thundar]

Guild Pilot basses also had the P/J configuration, but with the P pickup changed so that the GD pickup is further from the bridge than the EA pickup. I just held my Pilot up against my '68 P-bass and the P-pickup is smack on the sweet spot for the fender, just reversed as noted. I'm not sure there's any particular advantage to the P-pickup reversal (it was the other way around in early single pickup Pilots). But the P/J combo is sweet in this instrument, as it was in a MIJ Aerodyne J-bass I used to own.

That Pilot is smokin', Jmlee! I love those basses