Why have a nice rig just to be run direct?

[BurningSkies]

Unless the FOH was on stage at bass guitar sound check he has got no chance to produce the same stage-sound which the bass player is listening to.
That's very well explained in many posts above.

It's well explained that a GOOD FOH sound person WILL take the time to do this. Rather than handing over an XLR cable and sitting on his ass at the board. In fact, if you paid attention, you'll note that I even mentioned earlier that one of my favorite soundmen did just this...came up on stage, asked me to play and stood next to me to listen to what I sound like from my stage location.

 

[georgestrings]

It's well explained that a GOOD FOH sound person WILL take the time to do this. Rather than handing over an XLR cable and sitting on his ass at the board. In fact, if you paid attention, you'll note that I even mentioned earlier that one of my favorite soundmen did just this...came up on stage, asked me to play and stood next to me to listen to what I sound like from my stage location.

Yeah, that's pretty much an integral part of doing his job *properly*, instead of acting like some wannabe producer...

This is where running wireless shines - I ALWAYS get out into the room and see what it sounds like, even when I'm not running sound from the stage...



- georgestrings

 

[FretNoMore]

The best sound guy we get to work with occassionally has also gone wireless, using an iPad to control the mixer. He's all over the stage and then the room before and during the show to check the sound from many positions. Great technology that, gives him a much better tool to do a good job. And I'm sure it's just cool and more fun too.

 

[JimmyM]

What makes so many bass players so freaking disrespectful to the wants and needs of bass players who want to do things a different way than they like? You want to use a different bass than they like? Oh no, you must play a bass that fits their narrow little mindset reflected in their collection of basses. You want to use effects? They will come into the effects forum to inform you that they don't use effects because they are a good bass player and you are trying to disguise your lack of talent with effects, except compression, which gets a pass because it evens out the peaks and valleys of your playing, never mind that peaks and valleys can make things interesting, and never mind that it's using an effect to disguise your technique's peaks and valleys (don't start with me, comp fanatics...I used to use one, too, and I'm not against using it for that purpose unless you're a beginner). And God forbid you want to use anything except a cab that sounds like a PA, an amp that's "transparent" with knobs at noon (whatever the hell that means), and a dead-flat and clean solid state DI because a mic isn't "accurate," and we should all make our bass sound like a banjo just like them.

So you run sound, too...bully for you. That doesn't mean your word means any more than anyone else, nor does it mean we should all cowtow to what your idea of good tone is because it's the way you think it's supposed to be done. The best soundmen I ever worked with can make ANYTHING sound good, and they do it in a way that respects the musicians, and the worst soundmen I ever worked with are the "my way or the highway" types who think they're going to save you from yourself by forcing you to use their janky little $40 DI instead of the rig you spent big money on trying to carefully craft a sound that works for their band. If that $40 DI works for you, go do your own gigs and use it. Don't tell me what to do on my own gigs, though.

Just pipe down already and realize there's a whole big world outside of your narrow little mindset where bass players might dare to have a different idea of what good sound is than you. Quit trying to tell other bass players what they should do.

 

[FretNoMore]

What makes so many bass players so freaking disrespectful to the wants and needs of bass players who want to do things a different way than they like?
...

I would say it's by no means only bass players that do this ... seems people have to defend their own choices by putting down others', and find validation in a group that agrees with you. Just a less nice part of human nature really.

On the other hand, you don't really have to care much about what strangers tell you on the web? And, if you have a good idea and others won't listen, it's their loss ...

 

[JimmyM]

That's true, but so much BS gets passed off here as 'expert advice," and it just irks my bowels.

 

[TheBass]

@ThisBass: Maybe you don't realize that you burned yourself with your lecturing (=belehrend) rough comments, at least for this thread. I suggest to read this before further posting:
Invalid Link Removed

 

[JimmyM]

That is a funny article! I never knew how badly English translates to other languages.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Many here have no idea what a pig of a language is English and make zero allowances, even when it's pointed out, frustrating to see it blunder on.

 

[TheBass]

That is a funny article! I never knew how badly English translates to other languages.

... and how badly english is understood by germans. Sad but true. Working for an american company in Germany I went through some tough learning curve. Germans are far more direct - you might say rude - than americans. They really mean what they say. My suggestion to americany trying to say to a german: shut up! Just say it.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

So by "Bass Players" you mean those pontificating from behind their computers in their skivvies who need to get out and actually do a gig once in a while?
The same ones who’s idea of theory is to slam modes over everything?
The same ones who tell you wood doesn’t make a sonic difference in a bass?
The same ones who argue that tab is a legitimate form of communication for professionals?
The same ones who believe practicing with a metronome on 2 and 4 instead of 1 and 3 will give you better time?
The same ones who’ll buy a bass from a TB member in Canada and then won’t sell it back to him because they “don’t ship outside the US”?
The same ones who think the rest of the world speaks English…or if they don’t it's because they're stupid?
The same ones who honestly believe that what gear they buy has more to do with their personal voice than how the touch the instrument?
The ones who truly believe all they see and hear is all there is?

Sorry, just wanted to get clarification on this.....

 

[JimmyM]

Wow, looks like I got totally out-cynic'ed

Well I wasn't going to go there, but yeah, pretty much.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Sometimes I miss the unmoderated newsgroups.....

 

[cristian MM93]

That's my novel!!!!
I just love the stingrays 2 eq and maple. I usually say that they got the tone of my soul but I wanted that sounded more wood more warmer and so did several tests with Ampeg, GK, Hartke until after much searching, I decided to make my own cabinets.
Today, I'm counting on 2 (1 x 15) with Eminence and another with B&C CL176. to use with a LittleMark III after a few calculations and tuning, I still haven't found my dream tone but I'm satisfied.
My option was to add umaTube DI (Presonus) to send a warmer tone to the P.A.
I would like to have a Reddi but here for Brazil comes out veeeeery expensive.

 

[ThisBass]

I don't know any soundman, good or not, who doesn't go up onstage at least once during soundcheck. At the very least they have to wire the stage, and it's not like they can do it from their perch at FOH. Your post is what we in America call a "red herring," which is a misleading statement designed to distract from the relevant issues.

My intention is quite the contrary. Some fellows above made very good explanations to the usage of a mic. And as they point there are advantages as well as disadvantages and a very lot of boundary conditions which impact the sound on stage as well as on FOH.

If I myself would use a mic so I would try to learn from all the detailed explanations and very good statements made above (instead of ride about on words which lack of proper translation and sensibility into your language ).

Reading this thread I have learned a several technical things which I did not kept in mind before.
But there is one essential thing in particular. Never the less which kind of technique is used, pre DI or post DI or cab emulation or mic the cab, to come as close as possible to a sonic FOH sound that makes you all happy, it all need a intensive teamwork together with the soundguy, or a soundguy with great amount of experience who don't need lot of words to make you all happy.

 

[karl_em_all]

Thinking about this thread last night. I think I'm going to have my cab mic'ed from now on.

 

[squeezer]

I don't know any soundman, good or not, who doesn't go up onstage at least once during soundcheck. At the very least they have to wire the stage, and it's not like they can do it from their perch at FOH. Your post is what we in America call a "red herring," which is a misleading statement designed to distract from the relevant issues.

No it's not, as anyone who's done FOH sound (as opposed to playing through it) and/or understands how hearing works could tell you -- so I'll do that. Nobody can go and have a quick listen on stage, walk back to the desk and accurately reproduce that on-stage sound, your sound memory and analysis is neither accurate or reliable enough -- at best you'll get something vaguely similar in overall tone.

Someone with "golden ears" with good sound memory and who can analyse differences and knows what to do on the desk to try and remove them and does the back-and-forth walk several times can get pretty close -- but how many sound guys have the time and inclination to do this to set up a bass player?

Unless by some miracle the FOH sound is very close to on-stage to start off with and almost no adjustment is needed -- oh I forgot, this is always the case for you... ;-)

 

[ThisBass]

Someone with "golden ears" with good sound memory and who can analyse differences and knows what to do on the desk to try and remove them and does the back-and-forth walk several times can get pretty close -- but how many sound guys have the time and inclination to do this to set up a bass player?

I did that skunkwork several times when ever we played with PA support but did the FOH mix ourself on stage. It's very tricky to give all the instruments and vocals an acceptable sonic sound out of front. Especially the bass drum sound is extremely hard to eq this way. Against this the keys where very easy to eq, in particular most of the time little alignment at the lows (of course I know that is off topic).

 

[aborgman]

What makes so many bass players so freaking disrespectful to the wants and needs of bass players who want to do things a different way than they like?

I think it's a combination of things -

1) Laziness/ease of use
2) Lack of musicians (not just bass players) being able to differentiate between needs and wants

 

[skulletwhip]

What makes so many bass players so freaking disrespectful to the wants and needs of bass players who want to do things a different way than they like? You want to use a different bass than they like? Oh no, you must play a bass that fits their narrow little mindset reflected in their collection of basses. You want to use effects? They will come into the effects forum to inform you that they don't use effects because they are a good bass player and you are trying to disguise your lack of talent with effects, except compression, which gets a pass because it evens out the peaks and valleys of your playing, never mind that peaks and valleys can make things interesting, and never mind that it's using an effect to disguise your technique's peaks and valleys (don't start with me, comp fanatics...I used to use one, too, and I'm not against using it for that purpose unless you're a beginner). And God forbid you want to use anything except a cab that sounds like a PA, an amp that's "transparent" with knobs at noon (whatever the hell that means), and a dead-flat and clean solid state DI because a mic isn't "accurate," and we should all make our bass sound like a banjo just like them.

So you run sound, too...bully for you. That doesn't mean your word means any more than anyone else, nor does it mean we should all cowtow to what your idea of good tone is because it's the way you think it's supposed to be done. The best soundmen I ever worked with can make ANYTHING sound good, and they do it in a way that respects the musicians, and the worst soundmen I ever worked with are the "my way or the highway" types who think they're going to save you from yourself by forcing you to use their janky little $40 DI instead of the rig you spent big money on trying to carefully craft a sound that works for their band. If that $40 DI works for you, go do your own gigs and use it. Don't tell me what to do on my own gigs, though.

Just pipe down already and realize there's a whole big world outside of your narrow little mindset where bass players might dare to have a different idea of what good sound is than you. Quit trying to tell other bass players what they should do.

I like you. Thanks.