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Why have a nice rig just to be run direct?

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#61
mancefine said:
So now that I've written a novel, my question is what do you guys do to compensate and prepare for situations like this?
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As a player I put whatever I needed or wanted in my stage plot and/or tech rider, and then brought along any mission critical pieces like a submixer, stereo DI, specialty mic, etc. Or if I was behind the desk I always tried to advance shows and actually read said plot sheets/riders. Either way, the conversations and decisions should come well before the day of the show, IMHO and IME.
 
#62
I don't know if it's been covered, but if you have cabinets with more than one speaker size (I see you have 10s plus a 15, I have 15/12/6/tweeter) maybe it's not trivial to reproduce your sound with a simple mic setup? Just a thought.

My thinking on monitor vs FOH sound is to have full range bass cabinets and dial in your tone using the EQ on the bass, pedal board and amp. Then I go DI from my amp, or from the pedalboard. The stage amp therefor has a sound more similar to the PA to begin with and there is less difference between going direct and using a mic.
 
#63
I see this from a way different angle.

I used to run audio in TV. We commonly put bands on during a morning show I worked on. I had so little time to get things sounding good it was scary. Really scary.

The guys I LOVED had a DI tone through pedals, their head or whatever that I could run straight into the board and maybe shape it a bit (the high end boards had great high and low pass handles) set level and call it a day.

That sure impacted what I take on stage as a bassist. I give 'em a polished tone they can run with. We also pack a very forward producer type. She can bulldoze the most crusty sound man into submission in a New York minute.
 
#64
smeet said:
It's a difficult situation, because you like the color your cabinet gives to the sound, but that may not get to the FOH. That's one big reason I use a fEARful cabinet. It will never be exact, but the sound I get out of my cabinet has a good chance of being pretty close to what comes out of the PA. Yes, a PA-style cab will force you to EQ your signal in non-traditional ways, but that's because the cabinet is contributing much less color to your sound.
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+1

This is my current approach. Works well for me, even though my EQ for a couple of applications, is rather extreme. :ninja:
 
#65
Passinwind said:
As a player I put whatever I needed or wanted in my stage plot and/or tech rider, and then brought along any mission critical pieces like a submixer, stereo DI, specialty mic, etc. Or if I was behind the desk I always tried to advance shows and actually read said plot sheets/riders. Either way, the conversations and decisions should come well before the day of the show, IMHO and IME.
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You would think that would be enough, wouldn't you?
 
#66
These threads are always a little depressing to me, as a self-proclaimed amp/cab nut.

I bought a mic (P2 mentioned above) and hope that solves the problem. Haven't had an issue yet with it. I once tried telling the guy my V4B didn't have a DI (half true) so he should mic the cab and all that got me was a DI before even the preamp.

Here's my next idea: get a Bass VI and tell the sound guy it's a guitar. No way is he handing you a DI to use. :p
 
#67
wouldn't it be great if the technology existed so that you could digitally capture the sound of your very own bass cabinet (mic'd, like in a studio) in a black box or stomp of some kind, and then just take the DI off of your bass head or out of your foot pedal board, run it into this digital virtual cabinet, and send it DI to the sound board. That would be awesome! With a "blend" function, you could have the best of all worlds!

http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-cab/

http://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/axe-fx-2/Axe-Fx-II-ir-capture.pdf

:hiding:
 
#68
mancefine said:
So now that I've written a novel, my question is what do you guys do to compensate and prepare for situations like this? My first inclination is to buy a beta 52 and when a soundman asks me where my DI is to point to the mic. But if I run into an issue like that again, is there a specific Mic I can use that is good for capturing live bass tone, or should I invest in an EQable DI? It just really seems odd to spend all that money on getting a good bass tone with your entire rig to have a sound guy only use part of the equation when it matters most (when people here it). Thanks guys!
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When I was younger and I figured out that most basses were recorded direct and most live venues ran the bass direct in the PA, I decided I would focus on owning and playing basses that sounded good "all by themselves", and that combined with my playing style and nuance would be "my tone".

Today my main bass is a Fender Precision that has an incredible tone "built in", loud and resonant even unamplified, and in my experience would require quite a bit of effort on the soundperson's/recording engineer's part to make it sound bad.

Now, this is my focus and it works for me. If your rig and effects or what have you is "your tone" then by all means defend it. You may lose a few battles sure, but you will never win if you don't at least try.
 
#70
I always loved the sound at CBGBs , I dont know who the soundmen were but they could make any band soune awesome, even mine. They had a Kelsey board as I remember, and for 10 bucks he would record a cassete tape of your set. Good times....
 
#71
with the use of effects and wanting to control your tone, and give the house what it needs. You have to develop a pleasing direct signal that incorporates your sound. Yes, this means spending sometime developing this to make it work. Asking for a mic for your cab, yes always, but certain gigs and soundmen won't do it, so be prepared. The Radial JDi is always a good idea. But remember, driving your tone out of a 10", 12" or 15" full range speaker, will NOT sound the same to a 3 or 4 way PA system. Unless you take these things into account or have your own soundman with you, your sound "out front" will be compromised. Best thing I ever did was spend 3 afternoons with are soundman figuring out what was usable on stage vs FOH.
 
#72
s4001 said:
Exactly. I gave up on big rigs years ago. I've got a combo I like, a Sansamp and the rest is the soundguy's job. Even in thousand-odd seat venues, I just bring a combo.
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YES. Miking can be problematic since so many bass cabs/rigs have tweeters plus one or two sizes of speaker - which to mic?

With modern PA systems the idea of a giant guitar or bass rig is simply obsolete. I use a good DI preamp on a pedalboard that sends an XLR out to the house and a 1/4" out to a powered monitor speaker with me onstage so I can hear myself. Sound guys like it because my rig doesn't compete with their PA and everybody goes home happy.

good luck!
 
#74
Kind of off-topic but related to cabs in or out of the equation....

We played a gig where the soundman was kind enough to let me supply a thumbdrive that he could plug into the board for a direct recording.

The "world's loudest rhythm guitar player" from my band was very annoyed that he was virtually missing from the mix.
I also recorded the gig on my HB1 and he was in there loud and clear.
It finally convinced him that he was so dang loud that the soundguy had taken him out of the mix.
It was a nice moment.
 
#75
Well as my live tone comes from a combination of vintage tube amps pedals etc, I would also vastly prefer to have mic's on my cabs, but if the music tech student (pretending to be a sound engineer) says for some reason it's not possible and I should DI without a mic.
I have one of these bad boys:
Link Removed
What does that do I hear you chaps ask?
I hit him about the cranium with it, because it's far heavier than a class d amp:-):bassist:
 
#76
Bassmec said:
Well as my live tone comes from a combination of vintage tube amps pedals etc, I would also vastly prefer to have mic's on my cabs, but if the music tech student (pretending to be a sound engineer) says for some reason it's not possible and I should DI without a mic.
I have one of these bad boys:
Link Removed
What does that do I hear you chaps ask?
I hit him about the cranium with it, because it's far heavier than a class d amp:-):bassist:
Click to expand...

:D
 
#77
LowBC said:
YES. Miking can be problematic since so many bass cabs/rigs have tweeters plus one or two sizes of speaker - which to mic?
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I've found two things in my travels:

1. Those who like tweeters don't usually like to run a mic anyway.

2. The rare bassists who do like tweeters and mic'ed cabs find that the tweeter sound always makes it to the mic anyway. At least that's been my experience.

With modern PA systems the idea of a giant guitar or bass rig is simply obsolete.
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Er...sorry. I meant to say that I respectfully disagree.

I use a good DI preamp on a pedalboard that sends an XLR out to the house and a 1/4" out to a powered monitor speaker with me onstage so I can hear myself. Sound guys like it because my rig doesn't compete with their PA and everybody goes home happy.
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Whatever works for you. If I did that, everyone would go home happy except the people on the stage, especially me. [/QUOTE]
 
#79
chadds said:
So I sound like I want to sound.
So my band mates hear me sounding the way they are familiar.
So I can be out of the mix and rocking the honeys and the room.
So I can be heard if there is no PA or it's shite.
Sometimes we have the engineer only do vocals and leave everyone else out of the mix. We can balance so all the engineer has to do is monitor the room mix balancing the vocals with the band.
I/we come from an era when musicians could play live balanced without an engineer. :)
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+1.
 
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