Why I NEVER Vent On Here About Band Problems

[Gaolee]

Have you taken a good look at him?

However, he keeps showing up, to play.

Unlike Keith Moon.

 

[higain617]

Charlie Watts has been dead for at least twenty-years.

They reanimate him for tours with Keith Richards’ blood filtration apparatus.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I think while the title might have said one thing, venting is really what happened here.

I'm not sure that you got the gist of what you quoted. You said that in all of the previous posts you saw no epiphanies. I'm saying they don't always happen in print, in a thread. Many people don't post. How do I know this then? Years of private messages and conversations with people like that.

 

[bongostealth]

It's like my zero tolerance policy for intolerance.

I like it!!

 

[David Jayne]

Don't get me wrong, folks...I am not encouraging ANYONE to remain silent by any means! Nobody loves an insane stupid trainwreck of a thread like me, except maybe you, Brad That's why I quoted the two most recent trainwrecks. I give it as good as I can take it or as much as they'll let me, it's the OP's problem if he/she spills trainwreckable personal details.......

'Trainwreckable.' I like it. Don't know when I'll be able to use it but I will.

 

[Ronzo]

Brace yourself, Jimmy. We're going to see nothing but more of this since people live on the internet now. It's called Dunning-Kruger effect.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Isn’t that also called the Dunder Mifflin effect?

 

[Auspuff]

Brace yourself, Jimmy. We're going to see nothing but more of this since people live on the internet now. It's called Dunning-Kruger effect.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Well, that truly sums up my last boss, and his "Favorites," on the staff.

 

[Matty Koff]

I haven't done a lot of gigging in my life like you... but when i do.. sometimes just happens. In those threads it's like the concept of a band having an "off night" is unheard of. We're human, mistakes are in our nature. Recover, play the show - maybe learn from it. Move on. Humility looks good on people. And I get it.. it's easy to get all high and mighty when it's someone else making the mistakes.. but think about how much you'd like reading a post about the times when you've made mistakes. It's far more effective to discuss these things with the people they actually involve than to seek comfort in a public forum. If that's not the case, maybe you're not in a place you can call yourself happy and should look elsewhere.

My opener is simply to cause JimmyM to roll his eyes. Perhaps a facepalm.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Maybe he meant dead on the inside, like hookers and politicians?

Charlie Watts still brings it live with the Stones....iconic drummer who is also an excellent jazz drummer...what he said makes no sense.

 

[80jazz]

Brian Jones and Syd Barrett couldn't hold it together under any circumstances by then. Keith Moon, however, botched a handful of shows, but always did amazing work right up until the very end. And that is why Keith Richards is still in the Stones and Brian got the axe....Keith still held it together.

IIRC from my reading about the band, there seemed to have been discussion on the matter in 1978.

 

[PJ Muzikmansky]

Example 1:

Lazy sub drummer, bad gig (not humor)

Example 2:

Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

I had so many problems with the main band I used to be in for years to where every other gig ended with me leaving with an upset stomach, but in all that time, I never once commented on here how miserable an experience it was, who was doing what horrible thing to whom, or anything like that. And for the most part, I still don't. Anything I had to say about it on here was always positive and happy and never bad. The worst I might have said is how one of the major acts we backed up didn't want to hear anything but himself, which he always thought was funny. Why? Number one, commenting so negatively about co-workers you work with day in and day out is not only unprofessional, but if it gets back to them, it can totally lead to even worse problems. Number two, these two thread examples show what insane replies you can expect.

Shall we dissect them? Yes, let's...

Example 1 concerns a band of longtime pros getting a recommendation for a pro drummer to sub for a gig from a professional album producer two months out, only the drummer did absolutely no homework for the gig and pooped up the joint, and the BL reacted a little more publicly than he should have. Some people correctly realized that stuff happens once in a while, and the OP was just venting and wasn't looking for solutions, just a few "Been there done that" stories from us.

But every armchair quarterback who has likely never been in that position (and a few folks who should know better) chimed in with mostly finger pointing at the regular people in the band and the producer, calling THEM the unprofessional ones, and offering nothing in the way of solutions except completely unrealistic ones. Those of us who have been a longtime part of that world and know what it's like tried to set the record straight, only to keep getting shouted down by others who never existed in that world. And if you think this BL is unprofessional, I can tell you some stories, folks! Like or not, the BL calls the shots in his/her band, and if you don't like their behavior, they are never going to fire themselves.

Example 2 concerns a new bassist in a band of older players who's upset about the lead singer, who's usually been great, but who had too much to drink one night and got a little sloppy in a band where apparently everyone drinks on gigs but usually holds it together pretty well. Again, a few reasonable replies, but mostly a bunch of crap and nonsense about how this singer is a raging alcoholic, the bass player needs to confront him about it, and let him know that it's unacceptable. And in fine Talkbass tradition, there were a few replies that they need to fire the guy no questions asked.

First, the only thing anyone knows about this singer is what the new guy told us, which could be accurate or a gross misrepresentation of the facts and none of you would know the difference. The fact that so many people have diagnosed him as an alcoholic based on the bassist's OP makes me sick to my stomach, and it borders on libel. The OP needs to be extremely concerned about these comments adding up to libel, and he really needs to worry about it getting back to the rest of the band.

Second, the OP has said that the singer usually does a great job, but slipped this one night out of I don't know how many gigs they've done already, and didn't really start showing signs of slipping until later in the evening. The bar owner and staff were happy, the rest of the band didn't comment negatively about it, and the only one who seems unhappy is the OP, why may be justified in a little concern about a possible red flag. But of course, many people commented negatively about the singer's character as a human being, like any of them are perfect people who never ever did anything wrong in their lives. Spare me.

Third, let's examine the phrase "new guy" in more depth. Usually that means that you do less talking than listening, you be respectful of your new co-workers and try to assimilate into what they're already doing without making demands or pushing your own agenda until you've been there a good while, and if you don't like what's going on, then you either take a hike or you offer your opinion knowing full well that the end result could be them telling you to take a hike.

And some of you aren't going to like this, but while you might think you're extremely important to the success of a band with vocals as bassists (and make no mistake...some of you are), unless you can sing better than the lead singer and/or have a great ear for harmonies that they can't live without, you are not nearly as important as the lead singer, and even then you still may not be if they like him better than you. This goes double if you are the new guy, and it goes quadruple if you can't sing at all. And those of you who think it's OK to confront the lead singer in any way at this stage of the game are living in a world of delusion. Quit or keep quiet...those are a new guy's only two choices, and if you think otherwise, I dare you to try and prove me wrong.

Now add in the completely moronic barrage of replies to nearly every question on here with the advice to fire someone without any sort of rational analysis or thought of the repercussions ("Fire the drummer" is a joke on here now, but I remember when it wasn't), and now why you see why I always keep it light and never discuss any current issues I have with bands. I appreciate that there are some good and smart people on here who can offer up relevant and sage advice about how they handle certain situations. Some folks are extremely good at it. But I don't want so-called advice from inexperienced people who have never been outside of their house with a musical instrument, nor do I particularly care for advice from those who may be good experienced players but have never been in unique and uncommon performance situations such as what we have in example 1 or what I've done most of my career.

Sadly, I don't think it's ever going to change, though I keep hoping against hope. But if there's anything I can say to those who may recognize themselves as offenders on here to at least stem the tide a little, it would be these three things:

1. It's perfectly fine to have differences of opinion how to handle things, but truly consider what you're offering as advice, and make sure you've put at least a little thought into your replies.

2. We may all be equal in the eyes of the Lord or the law, but we are not all equal on the bandstand, so realize when you're out of your element. If you've never been in a situation someone is asking about, especially if it's regarding higher level performing situations than you've ever been a part of, you're best off to allow those who have been reply, and you just read and learn, otherwise you may do more harm than good.

3. Your words are public and easily searchable, so be very careful about the questions you ask or the comments you make when you start a thread, because I've seen it come back to bite people on the ass many times. It even came back on me once when I made what I thought was a comment that would never be seen by anyone but other bassists on an obscure bassist forum, and I was forced into damage control.

4. Everyone on here has egos to some degree, otherwise we wouldn't be here, and that is healthy and helps us do what we do without collapsing into a heap of self-doubt. But don't over-estimate the bass player's importance to the success of a project and give bad advice based on that very inaccurate assumption. Like it or not, pretty much all bands have pecking orders, and even the most democratic bands don't usually put bass players at number one unless they're the bandleader, and if you believe otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

5. NO ADVICE IS WAY BETTER THAN BAD ADVICE!

I posted this thread in the spirit of love and respect for those of you who share my love of playing music and entertaining people with the gift of music, and it's my sincere hope that all of you take it in that spirit, even if you might recognize yourself in some of these scenarios. But if you don't, all I can tell you is that if you think this post is bad, you should have seen my first and second drafts!!!

Jimmy, I'm a long-time lurker here with maybe fifty trivial posts a year, and I don't know you from a bar of soap, but I've always enjoyed your input.

This is the best post I've ever read. Wise words my friend.

Thankyou.

 

[joebar]

The best threads on this forum are the theory ones and the band related ones. What else are we supposed to read?
Not everyone wants to know which Cargo shorts are the best for metal

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy, I'm a long-time lurker here with maybe fifty trivial posts a year, and I don't know you from a bar of soap, but I've always enjoyed your input.

This is the best post I've ever read. Wise words my friend.

Thankyou.

Well I guess the law of averages had to catch up with me just by sheer volume

Thank you so much PJ! It's always good to know when folks like you get something out of my posts. Have a great weekend!

 

[eJake]

I'm not sure that you got the gist of what you quoted. You said that in all of the previous posts you saw no epiphanies. I'm saying they don't always happen in print, in a thread. Many people don't post. How do I know this then? Years of private messages and conversations with people like that.

I get it, I just don't buy into what you're saying. No offense intended.

Jimmys OP was majorly about 1) venting that might get back to you and 2) people giving bad advice. Both of these things have to do with posting, not lurking.

While I totally get that people lurk here, my original reply was not aimed at them. Mostly because the OP wasn't aimed at them.

Hopefully that's cleared up!

 

[51PRI]

On second read of the op and the other posts I'm sensing more of a virtue signaling humblebrag vibe with a fair amount of venting about not venting thrown in for good measure, and that's okay. That's probably a good bit of what a "Band Management" section of the forum was intended for.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I get it, I just don't buy into what you're saying. No offense intended.

Jimmys OP was majorly about 1) venting that might get back to you and 2) people giving bad advice. Both of these things have to do with posting, not lurking.

While I totally get that people lurk here, my original reply was not aimed at them. Mostly because the OP wasn't aimed at them.

Hopefully that's cleared up!

No, it didn't... and I've explained it twice so there's probably no need to continue. But... I didn't think that pointing out that every epiphany is not followed by a post would be this mysterious.

 

[JimmyM]

I get it, I just don't buy into what you're saying. No offense intended.

Jimmys OP was majorly about 1) venting that might get back to you and 2) people giving bad advice. Both of these things have to do with posting, not lurking.

While I totally get that people lurk here, my original reply was not aimed at them. Mostly because the OP wasn't aimed at them.

Hopefully that's cleared up!

No, it didn't... and I've explained it twice so there's probably no need to continue. But... I didn't think that pointing out that every epiphany is not followed by a post would be this mysterious.

No need to argue, folks...New Shimmer is a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

Bonus points if you know where that line came from.

 

[hangman]

No need to argue, folks...New Shimmer is a floor wax AND a dessert topping!

Bonus points if you know where that line came from.

New Shimmer and the Super Bass-o-matic 76 make excellent gifts this season.

 

[Auspuff]

New Shimmer and the Super Bass-o-matic 76 make excellent gifts this season.

I accept!

 

[roccobass]

Well I guess the law of averages had to catch up with me just by sheer volume

Thank you so much PJ! It's always good to know when folks like you get something out of my posts. Have a great weekend!

.....Like it or not, pretty much all bands have pecking orders, and even the most democratic bands don't usually put bass players at number one unless they're the bandleader, and if you believe otherwise, you're fooling yourself...
Jimmy, I’m sub quoting you from paragraph 4. I’m firmly with you. Yes, it’s unfortunate we’re all not as valuable as Geddy Lee.
Present company included. My take is to just be more than ready for the gig. Homework done, bringing spare cords, sense of humor, being early and sober to the gig. And that much overlooked thing called hustle. These things bring your stock up. Oh yeah, don’t be antagonistic. As a case point, I believe Charlie Conlin’s exit from Train might apply here.