Why I NEVER Vent On Here About Band Problems

[Texican]

Example 1:

Lazy sub drummer, bad gig (not humor)

Example 2:

Venting - LS can't handle playing in a bar that serves shots.

I had so many problems with the main band I used to be in for years to where every other gig ended with me leaving with an upset stomach, but in all that time, I never once commented on here how miserable an experience it was, who was doing what horrible thing to whom, or anything like that. And for the most part, I still don't. Anything I had to say about it on here was always positive and happy and never bad. The worst I might have said is how one of the major acts we backed up didn't want to hear anything but himself, which he always thought was funny. Why? Number one, commenting so negatively about co-workers you work with day in and day out is not only unprofessional, but if it gets back to them, it can totally lead to even worse problems. Number two, these two thread examples show what insane replies you can expect.

Shall we dissect them? Yes, let's...

Example 1 concerns a band of longtime pros getting a recommendation for a pro drummer to sub for a gig from a professional album producer two months out, only the drummer did absolutely no homework for the gig and pooped up the joint, and the BL reacted a little more publicly than he should have. Some people correctly realized that stuff happens once in a while, and the OP was just venting and wasn't looking for solutions, just a few "Been there done that" stories from us.

But every armchair quarterback who has likely never been in that position (and a few folks who should know better) chimed in with mostly finger pointing at the regular people in the band and the producer, calling THEM the unprofessional ones, and offering nothing in the way of solutions except completely unrealistic ones. Those of us who have been a longtime part of that world and know what it's like tried to set the record straight, only to keep getting shouted down by others who never existed in that world. And if you think this BL is unprofessional, I can tell you some stories, folks! Like or not, the BL calls the shots in his/her band, and if you don't like their behavior, they are never going to fire themselves.

Example 2 concerns a new bassist in a band of older players who's upset about the lead singer, who's usually been great, but who had too much to drink one night and got a little sloppy in a band where apparently everyone drinks on gigs but usually holds it together pretty well. Again, a few reasonable replies, but mostly a bunch of crap and nonsense about how this singer is a raging alcoholic, the bass player needs to confront him about it, and let him know that it's unacceptable. And in fine Talkbass tradition, there were a few replies that they need to fire the guy no questions asked.

First, the only thing anyone knows about this singer is what the new guy told us, which could be accurate or a gross misrepresentation of the facts and none of you would know the difference. The fact that so many people have diagnosed him as an alcoholic based on the bassist's OP makes me sick to my stomach, and it borders on libel. The OP needs to be extremely concerned about these comments adding up to libel, and he really needs to worry about it getting back to the rest of the band.

Second, the OP has said that the singer usually does a great job, but slipped this one night out of I don't know how many gigs they've done already, and didn't really start showing signs of slipping until later in the evening. The bar owner and staff were happy, the rest of the band didn't comment negatively about it, and the only one who seems unhappy is the OP, why may be justified in a little concern about a possible red flag. But of course, many people commented negatively about the singer's character as a human being, like any of them are perfect people who never ever did anything wrong in their lives. Spare me.

Third, let's examine the phrase "new guy" in more depth. Usually that means that you do less talking than listening, you be respectful of your new co-workers and try to assimilate into what they're already doing without making demands or pushing your own agenda until you've been there a good while, and if you don't like what's going on, then you either take a hike or you offer your opinion knowing full well that the end result could be them telling you to take a hike.

And some of you aren't going to like this, but while you might think you're extremely important to the success of a band with vocals as bassists (and make no mistake...some of you are), unless you can sing better than the lead singer and/or have a great ear for harmonies that they can't live without, you are not nearly as important as the lead singer, and even then you still may not be if they like him better than you. This goes double if you are the new guy, and it goes quadruple if you can't sing at all. And those of you who think it's OK to confront the lead singer in any way at this stage of the game are living in a world of delusion. Quit or keep quiet...those are a new guy's only two choices, and if you think otherwise, I dare you to try and prove me wrong.

Now add in the completely moronic barrage of replies to nearly every question on here with the advice to fire someone without any sort of rational analysis or thought of the repercussions ("Fire the drummer" is a joke on here now, but I remember when it wasn't), and now why you see why I always keep it light and never discuss any current issues I have with bands. I appreciate that there are some good and smart people on here who can offer up relevant and sage advice about how they handle certain situations. Some folks are extremely good at it. But I don't want so-called advice from inexperienced people who have never been outside of their house with a musical instrument, nor do I particularly care for advice from those who may be good experienced players but have never been in unique and uncommon performance situations such as what we have in example 1 or what I've done most of my career.

Sadly, I don't think it's ever going to change, though I keep hoping against hope. But if there's anything I can say to those who may recognize themselves as offenders on here to at least stem the tide a little, it would be these three things:

1. It's perfectly fine to have differences of opinion how to handle things, but truly consider what you're offering as advice, and make sure you've put at least a little thought into your replies.

2. We may all be equal in the eyes of the Lord or the law, but we are not all equal on the bandstand, so realize when you're out of your element. If you've never been in a situation someone is asking about, especially if it's regarding higher level performing situations than you've ever been a part of, you're best off to allow those who have been reply, and you just read and learn, otherwise you may do more harm than good.

3. Your words are public and easily searchable, so be very careful about the questions you ask or the comments you make when you start a thread, because I've seen it come back to bite people on the ass many times. It even came back on me once when I made what I thought was a comment that would never be seen by anyone but other bassists on an obscure bassist forum, and I was forced into damage control.

4. Everyone on here has egos to some degree, otherwise we wouldn't be here, and that is healthy and helps us do what we do without collapsing into a heap of self-doubt. But don't over-estimate the bass player's importance to the success of a project and give bad advice based on that very inaccurate assumption. Like it or not, pretty much all bands have pecking orders, and even the most democratic bands don't usually put bass players at number one unless they're the bandleader, and if you believe otherwise, you're fooling yourself.

5. NO ADVICE IS WAY BETTER THAN BAD ADVICE!

I posted this thread in the spirit of love and respect for those of you who share my love of playing music and entertaining people with the gift of music, and it's my sincere hope that all of you take it in that spirit, even if you might recognize yourself in some of these scenarios. But if you don't, all I can tell you is that if you think this post is bad, you should have seen my first and second drafts!!!

-TLDR-

Just remember that the bassist is the most important member of the band. If you’re unhappy with anything, let them know and demand that it be rectified. They’ll listen, and if they don’t, fire the band leader.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Great post but I have to disagree with you to a degree......we all have travelled different roads, your road is but one way to get to a destination...I stand by every thing I said in that first example......I didn't bother to reply in the other

But many can't seem to make the distinction between their road and everyone else's. Because so many knew alcoholics on their life they broad brushed the subject of that thread who as far as we knew got inebriated ONCE. They even deemed the family to be drunks too. Jimmy used the right descriptor for folks like that... and many seemed clueless to their behavior.

 

[Brad Johnson]

...all social media is about getting attention... don't need studies or footnotes... we all know it is...

I disagree. I don't believe that no one is trying to help others.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Those who know history, coupled with TB will understand my next phrase...

Burke and (ahem) Berlin.

I can't imagine what you're referring to.

 

[Brad Johnson]

@JimmyM Just finished the whole thread up til now. I agree with the OP but am curious why you spent your time crafting it? You seem to understand the interpersonal part of what we do. In the 115 posts i read before writing this, no one was having any epifanis (but i saw some fearfuls haha!!!! sorry..)

I get where you are coming from but, unfortunately, this is the internet. Also being the internet, the fact that example 1 was titled "not humor" made me laugh twice as hard reading it!!!

Sometimes people just try to help others.

And you hit on something that many regularly ignore... every reader does not necessarily comment. You have no real idea of how many this touched. Some who see themselves might likely remain silent. Or worse, oblivious.

 

[crguti]

Without the rants, this forum would be boring.

 

[JimmyM]

Sometimes people just try to help others.

And you hit on something that many regularly ignore... every reader does not necessarily comment. You have no real idea of how many this touched. Some who see themselves might likely remain silent. Or worse, oblivious.

Don't get me wrong, folks...I am not encouraging ANYONE to remain silent by any means! Nobody loves an insane stupid trainwreck of a thread like me, except maybe you, Brad That's why I quoted the two most recent trainwrecks. I give it as good as I can take it or as much as they'll let me, it's the OP's problem if he/she spills trainwreckable personal details and not mine, and let's face it, some threads need a train to plow through them.

But I while I don't like to be as impolite on here as I used to be, I'll darn sure let someone know when they give what I consider is bad or irrelevant advice or is being dicky just to be dicky. If someone comes along and disagrees or sets me straight, I will listen and sometimes adjust my replies, and sometimes not. But I always give deference to someone who knows more than me when appropriate based on their life experience and mine or lack of it. Bad advice can result in bad karma, lost work, and physical injury in more ways than CTS.

So if you have to start a reply with, "I don't do working pro gigs like yours/haven't played out/just started playing a month ago, but...", don't. Just don't.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I was saying that some people choose to lurk. Nothing new about that.

 

[JimmyM]

On an unrelated note: I believe you have to be an amazing bass player and since I live in Central Florida, I hope I get to see and hear you someday. I used to play out regularly (when I lived up north), but haven't in quite awhile. I don't get out much anymore, but have been shopping musicians to play with (or with whom to play)! Your insights apply to just about any profession, when it comes to not bad-mouthing your co-workers; especially in a public forum!

Thx Dav...nice of you to say! Fortunately it looks like you're going to get more opportunities to do so in the near future. Feel free to like or follow my Facebook page. Can't remember the URL but you can find me through Ampeg's page or some bass forums on there.

And that goes for everyone unless you're a dick

 

[Strung_Low]

I agree that some of the advice given on threads here is not always... appropriate/from an experienced perspective, but its fun to read different pespectives. Its up to the op what path, if any, they will follow.. we all make our own decisions.

 

[JimmyM]

I agree that some of the advice given on threads here is not always... appropriate/from an experienced perspective, but its fun to read different pespectives. Its up to the op what path, if any, they will follow.. we all make our own decisions.

That's fine but folks should be more aware when their advice isn't very good.

 

[okcrum]

That's fine but folks should be more aware when their advice isn't very good.

Brace yourself, Jimmy. We're going to see nothing but more of this since people live on the internet now. It's called Dunning-Kruger effect.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

 

[JimmyM]

Brace yourself, Jimmy. We're going to see nothing but more of this since people live on the internet now. It's called Dunning-Kruger effect.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Well sure, but be prepared for the replies, Chuck!

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Charlie Watts has been dead for at least twenty-years.

How is Charlie Watts dead when he's still alive?

 

[Auspuff]

Have you taken a good look at him?

However, he keeps showing up, to play.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

How is Charlie Watts dead when he's still alive?

Maybe he meant dead on the inside, like hookers and politicians?

 

[eJake]

Sometimes people just try to help others.

And you hit on something that many regularly ignore... every reader does not necessarily comment. You have no real idea of how many this touched. Some who see themselves might likely remain silent. Or worse, oblivious.

I think while the title might have said one thing, venting is really what happened here.

 

[Texican]

I think while the title might have said one thing, venting is really what happened here.

Lol there may be some truth to that, but he did say he doesn’t vent about BAND problems, not forum problems...

At any rate, you should fire Jimmy from this thread!

 

[frankie5string]

...and a barrage of that not-very-good advice often sends new members packing pretty quickly.

Facebook is a great example of that, with drive-by commenters who really don't think before they post and often have extremely black and white views on a post they may not really know the details of.

That's fine but folks should be more aware when their advice isn't very good.

 

[Gaolee]

And that goes for everyone unless you're a dick

That would be me, then. I never thought you would notice! Plus, I'm here for the entertainment, so when people vent in new, wonderous, and creative ways, it's a huge bonus. And as an added bonus, only on TV and only available today, I am playing drums in one band instead of bass, so when the firing comes, there will be more time to be a dick on TB. What could be better?