Why is it always the drummer?

I agree a drummer can really make the band. One jazz musician said the "drummer is the leader of the band". He has the greatest power to effect tension and release compared to other musicians. One keyboard virtuoso I played with recently told me that he doesn't think the bass drives the tension and release -- it's the drummer.

It was a problem I had with the drummer in my current group -- the guy who we trained to be a jazz musician since he was a competent rock drummer, and most of all, was a sales person.

He picked up the style, but tended to keep the time. He didn't listen, and he didn't follow the band when it was time to generate tension. We mentioned this a few times, to no avail. There were flashes of improvement, but usually after we walked over to him, stared at him, and then played the same, percussive riff over and over and over again until he got it.

I don't believe in the black and white (either you have it or don't). I have personally used positive reinforcement wherever possible. Whenever he DOES show the kind of leadership, or support for tension we want, he hears about it. Major praise and appreciation.

There have been frank conversations about tension and release with him, as well, but I don't think he got it for a long time. It was only after we started working with percussive keyboard players that he started to understand what we were talking about.

And then, the other day, after he really got it, he complemented the keyboard player (a pickup player) about his tension and release.

FINALLY!!!!!!!! He'd arrived. It took 2 years but he made it.

So, I don't think it's always a black and white thing. Sometimes, it takes a while for the musicians to step into the same room of understanding. And it sometimes takes patience, particularly when the other fundamentals are in place that make the guys' overall value in the band on the positive side.

 

The two previous posters throw very well why "it's always the drummer."

It's a hard instrument to play well. The ones who do aren't short of work.

 

I agree, a good drummer who knows his way around the barline is a rarity and a blessing. What drives me nuts is working with bands that have been through several bassists because the BL doesn't want to accept it's the drummer making the groove sound 'weird'. Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I'd love to know anybody's tips on how to mitigate THAT particular snag!

 

I have a perfect example of this: in one band I was a part of, the drummer started a particular song with an 8 bar intro. However, instead of keeping it simple he made it so complex that he did not have the skill to pull it off and confused the rest of the band on where to come in because we couldn't tell where the "1" was.

Another band: a few of us were reminiscing years later about who the weak link was. I nominated the guitarist and produced some audio to back it up. I was corrected and told the weakest member was the drummer because "He had more rolls than Mama Cass!"

 

My experience is really that most bands' weak spot is the singing, it's much more noticeable when the vocals are weak. Maybe being bass players we personally suffer more when we don't gel with the drummer, but I think the audience hear something else.

 

+1

After 40+ years of playing, there is no doubt that mediocre players and great singers will get you further than great players and mediocre singers. Of course great BOTH will get you even further.

 

You can't. IMHO if the BL is too clueless to know who is ruining the groove, you probably can't educate them.

 

Agreed on singers being more noticeable, and therefore more important, to a band's success. The most obvious example is the biggest band in the world: everybody agrees that Lars is not what makes Metallica great, but he's obviously not the one killing their income, either.

 

YOU be the BL ! that's all I got , sorry

 

I'm with the drums carrying the goods. There are a LOT of bands with below average singers that are very popular (on the local level I'm speaking of). They mask that with a bit of showmanship, stage presence, or eye appeal and they have it made. The rest of the band can play around them easy enough. A bad drummer sucks everyone off the rails. A good drummer lets everyone shine.

 

One of the smartest drummers in the world was Journey's Steve Smith. its said that his contract was written in such a way that he got a piece of everything Journey ever does, so he's still getting paid after leaving quite a long time ago and forming Vital Information.

 

the problem with many drummers is they all think they're Neil Peart... and their not.

 

Agreed..... that's why the Bass and Drums are called "The rhythm section" ...

 

I think that sometimes the problems with some drummers is that they aren't good listeners. Drummers both lead and accompany, and, IMO, to do that well, you have to be actively listening to the other musicians. I agree that poor drumming is due, sometimes, for the reasons given above (e.g. ambition beyond, skills, poor sense of time), but I also believe a lot of these faults could be somewhat mitigated by a drummer who is listening and playing accordingly.

And, even for drummers with skills, more active listening can't hurt. Indeed, in my opinion, some of the best drummers, realize that 'less is more' and that the spaces between the notes count as much as the notes themselves.

 

This is very true. I have been on both ends of this situation in the same band. The drummer is the "heartbeat" of the band and makes the difference between a band sounding tight and professional or sloppy and unrehearsed. A bad drummer can make good musicians sound bad because they are always struggling to deal with bad timing and wrong tempos. A bad drummer forces the bassist to play simple conservative lines because you are never sure when he will come back in on the "1". I can't count how many times I tried to do a fill and was left hanging because the drummer came back to the "1" early or late. Not to mention other aspects like sobriety or dependability.

 

I've had the problem of a drummer being very good at drums, but an ass child in every other way.

 

I'm so incredibly blessed with the drummer I play with now. He's not exactly the style I'd like, but what he plays still rocks, fits the music and is easy to follow. But, he's also the one listening closest to what I'm doing, so I can drive what he's doing as well. The dynamic is really cool, and I know if nobody else is listening, he is. On top of that, he's got a very dry sense of humor which is easy for me to play off of. All of that adds up to one of the best drummers I've ever played with. I wish that was always the case!

 

MM, I couldn't agree with your posts more, and was smiling through them as I read them. GEEZE, we're not alone! *whew Ok, a couple of points and bit of story telling. A pro music consultant (we brought one in for a 2 day workshop with our band) taught us that the single most important element is the musical foundation (in most bands the bass player, given variability in instrumentation for that low part of the register) because the bass player brings the fundamental in the pocket. Period. Tonality in time, is what he said. The whole song and whole band build on that foundation. (Recall Abe Laboriel's famous quote "Bass is the house everyone else plays in"). But he went on to say that the prime prerequisite is the drummer's job. He said it's timekeeper, not "music" per se/proper (but not starting a fight - we got his point). Our current drummer and previous drummer, by comparison, are newer players and struggle with holding tempo, feeling builds and letting off, and fills vs keeping the pocket. Literally everything you said, MM, is dead-on. I've eaten that sandwich for years. It seems basics like, "Know your part, and play it" are lost on our ambitions as people. We want to do so much more than know our part and play it. Basics like, "Keep us in time, and play in the pocket with me" are just too insulting for some. If you youtube it, Bill Evans is in a documentary hosted by Steve Allen, where Bill talks about "playing honestly" vs "confusion." Bill says it's better to play a simpler part, correctly, and slowly grow your playing adding an intentional bit to what you do, where you know what/why you are adding it (he calls that "playing honestly") rather than approximating something more complex, fuzzing it up and not being precise, and then your development is stuck - because you are adding confusion and you can't build on confusion. WOW.

When our current drummer keeps time and plays in the pocket, it's a rare thing. Me and the guitar have decided recently WE are keeping time period. We have to. It's that bad.

Experience/story time. Anyone play with a drummer who plays behind the beat naturally, and plays SO SO SO far behind the beat he literally is trying to move the groove and almost shuffle EVERYTHING you play? This is us.

MM, I feel our pain.