Who cares about trying to changing anyone's opinion on the matter? It's not going to happen.
BTW: I can pee further than all of you.
I agree, and apologize if I said anything divisive. Also, the topic of the thread is a moving target.
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Why is "Metal" constantly being bashed by "real" musicians?
- Thread starter RNV
- Start date
I agree, and apologize if I said anything divisive. Also, the topic of the thread is a moving target.
Yeah, people are fans of Nickelback & Creed and I can't tell you why. Not trying to knock on people that like those bands, but I see no appeal, whatsoever, to the music they make. To me, the radio is music to the lowest common denominator.
Jazz, classic rock, and especially classical are old(er) forms of music & what gets played on the radio isn't generally new. The rock and pop stations aren't that way and generally play new crap and 20 years from now the classic rock stations will pick up the good stuff that's stood apart from the junk.
Examples of this phenomenon being Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Metallica being played on classic rock stations now.
I just play and listen to whatever is substantial to me. 3 favorite bands to listen to/play...
Metallica
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Tool
Sorry, who exactly is doing the bashing? Which "real" musicians are we talking about? I'm not seeing it.
I actually find this thread very interesting - it hasn't descended into a full-on flame war...
I think one could make the case that CW and Metal "suffer" from similar stigmas - I know plenty of players who really roll their eyes at CW (myself included) largely because they dislike the genre... And like CW, there is a "Metal Lifestyle" or "Metal Costume" one wears - I suppose that's part of what I don't like about those genres - the whole "living the music" thing. Not my bag.
But I have yet to see a CW bass player get butt-hurt when other folks say "I don't care for your music". CW players are a confident bunch, for whatever reason.
But I don't know *anyone* who would say "you shouldn't like X or Y or Z" - Okay, I'll say "You shouldn't like Maroon 5" because they are really annoying. And any "AutoTuner" music. And... Ah hell...
The closest I ever came was when I was teaching. I would do "trades" with kids - - I'd teach them a metal song if they'd learn a funk or light jazz tune. I did this to try to open their minds up, not to "turn them away" from a genre. I was 15 once too - I really liked what was considered "metal" in 1976, so I'm not going to reach a kid by telling him what he likes is bad, right?
It doesn't happen in threads like this one. It happens in threads with "Cliff Burton," "Lemmy," "AC/DC," etc. in the title. That is what really brings out the deep thinkers... the opportunity to post that Victor Wooten could play circles around these guys.
Absolute nonsense. Whether you are referring to people who enjoy the music, or people who play the music. Pop has far more of a theatrical "costume" element than metal. Besides, how many threads are there on TB where experienced pros advise newbs to be sure to "dress the part" as an element of success?
Balog said:
Exactly. I can play all of the gigs I do in shorts and sandals, but I'm going to dress appropriately for wherever the show is. I'm not going to wear my tux in a metal show, and I'm not going to wear "metal costuming"-whatever that means-at a Latin jazz gig.
You misunderstand; I'm talking about the *fans*, the *listeners* - not guys on stage. I *get* that you have to get your leather & whatnot on for a metal gig, just as I *get* that you put on the silly hat, boots and buckle for a CW gig... it's part of the act.
There is a perceived "lifestyle" to both metal and CW to a great many folks. I had someone who was all pissed off PM me a while back saying "Man, just because you used to like metal doesn't mean you've *lived* it!!!" - Which means WHAT? What is "living metal" mean, aside from a host of negative stereotypes?
The "metal lifestyle" is something kids worry about. I'm not a kid anymore, have nothing to do with the whatever the "lifestyle" is these days, and I still listen to and play metal. It's fun music to write and play and it gets my mind of the grind for a night or two a week. Some folks get the same fulfillment from jazz or blues or whatever & that's totally cool w/ me. I prefer metal and punk rock. This hasn't changed in 25 years and probably never will.
I have been into metal for 30 years. I don't wear t-shirts very often, but when I wear one to a show, they are black. Other than that, I don't subscribe to any particular lifestyle that anyone would consider "metal." I am into gardening, gourmet food, woodworking... things a lot of TB'ers are probably into. There is no doubt from looking at me, however, that I have "lived" in some sort of musical subculture for a long time. It makes for funny looks sometimes when holding the door for old ladies and things like that.
Hell, I didn't know it was so important to people to have their taste in music validated. While I mightn't agree with some of what you say, Harry, I've got to say, you're on the ball with a lot of it.
The thing I've noticed is the people who tend to get up in arms are people who listen to/play metal exclusively. A lot of these guys tend to be the socially-awkward types, who have finally found somewhere they fit in, and when they come across someone who doesn't particularly care about their encyclopedic knowledge of the first wave of black metal, they fall back into the old, "I don't fit" insecurities.
I love a lot of metal, everything from the very extreme stuff, to classic metal, like Sabbath or Maiden, but if I met, for example, Big Ol' Harry, in person, that's not what we're going to chat about. The, "only metal...death to the falses" types have no other conversation pieces to fall back on often enough. Most people can find at least one common ground for discussion, be it food, travel, politics or whatever. When someone places themselves in a position where one topic is all they've got, they're naturally going to feel uncomfortable when this one thing is undermined.
I've been fortunate enough to have had some extensive touring opportunities through playing metal, whereas my other musican endeavours have provided me with different rewards, none have matched the adrenaline rush I, personally, get from playing metal. I've met some amazing, interesting, articulate people all over the world at metal gigs, but I've also met a whole lot of tedious people who can't or won't discuss anything but the latest "7" vinyl release limited to 666 copoes by _____", even for a huge fan of the genre, that gets boring after a while. Sometimes I just want to kick it and talk about old 16 Horsepower albums, or cooking, or sports!
/rant.
The thing I've noticed is the people who tend to get up in arms are people who listen to/play metal exclusively. A lot of these guys tend to be the socially-awkward types, who have finally found somewhere they fit in, and when they come across someone who doesn't particularly care about their encyclopedic knowledge of the first wave of black metal, they fall back into the old, "I don't fit" insecurities.
I love a lot of metal, everything from the very extreme stuff, to classic metal, like Sabbath or Maiden, but if I met, for example, Big Ol' Harry, in person, that's not what we're going to chat about. The, "only metal...death to the falses" types have no other conversation pieces to fall back on often enough. Most people can find at least one common ground for discussion, be it food, travel, politics or whatever. When someone places themselves in a position where one topic is all they've got, they're naturally going to feel uncomfortable when this one thing is undermined.
I've been fortunate enough to have had some extensive touring opportunities through playing metal, whereas my other musican endeavours have provided me with different rewards, none have matched the adrenaline rush I, personally, get from playing metal. I've met some amazing, interesting, articulate people all over the world at metal gigs, but I've also met a whole lot of tedious people who can't or won't discuss anything but the latest "7" vinyl release limited to 666 copoes by _____", even for a huge fan of the genre, that gets boring after a while. Sometimes I just want to kick it and talk about old 16 Horsepower albums, or cooking, or sports!
/rant.
I remember a friend of mine coming to a show with a green T-shirt. You could see him miles away in the crowd
A green spot in the middle of a black see+1 And I've never seen that many "awkwards guys" in any other crowd. The more local the crowd is, the worst it gets
You'd think so - but I've been dinged by guys in their 30's / 40's, insisting that was a "wimp" for not "living metal". *sigh*.
heck, I was a rock & roll as you could get in the '70s - I wore the costume, I had the aerosmith Tee shirt over the long underwear (yup, that WAS the costume back then)... but I grew up. A person who enjoys a genre, be it CW or metal - heck, that's their business... but the whole "lifestyle" thing, where it happens, is just silly either way (to me, at least).
It is interesting that both CW and Metal are very masculine genres - that is, the guys who are into the "lifetsyle" fancy themselves as very tough...
Now, contrast that to Jazz guys - those "lifetyle" guys often wear suits, act professorial and extremely polite... Hmmm... Who would I rather hang with or even emulate???
I don't know about you Harry, but I'd rather not emulate either, and just keep on being myself.
As for which I'd rather hang with? I've got friends in the metal scene, the classical and the folk scene who very much like to, "live the lifestyle", I value their friendship for lots of different factors. None of these include whether they wear a suit. I don't really consider someones dress sense an important factor, nor have I found any correlation between what genre of music someone listens to and how good a person they are.
Speaking of those qualities you mentioned, one of my polite, suit wearing professors when I was at university was also very into his music. He was a great drummer, very much jazz-educated. He spent his weekends knocking out tunes with a metal band for fun...the band was entirely made up of other professors from within the university.
That's just a passing anecdote, I'm obviously not suggesting all professors are like that, most are probably more likely to dig some classical music, but big sweeping statements about how people who listen to certain styles of music will always miss details like that.
The amount of judging that's going on here is staggering. The OP may not have worded it this way, but it seems to me the main point of this thread & the question that is really ripe to be answered isn't why "real" musicians don't like metal or its "lifestyle". I think the question he's trying to ask is why these "real" musicians are so quick to offer their expert opinions on what makes the genre invalid. One of the first question the 'real' guys are asking of the metalheads is 'why do you care?'. Well, I think the essence of this thread is asking the detractors the same question.
