Why is the 1000 ASP ICE module not more popular?

[3rdcurve]

I see the results of players who do get in trouble. Often.

What are your recommendations for matching and amp to speakers? 1 to 1 with rms ratings?

 

[beans-on-toast]

I've read and heard some makers claiming they need certain power to "open up"

That's true with some cabs. As the volume is increased, you hit a point where it starts to sing, more musical sounding. Distortion, which includes compression, does help make the sound. But it's more complicated than that. I think it's about moving more air that gives it that opened up sound.

 

[BurningSkies]

IME, one of the biggest headroom bottlenecks is a blown speaker. Headroom isn't headroom if it's actually used. Accidents happen, lack of good judgement happens, simply making a mistake happens and I see the results, which tend to be quicker and more catastrophic with very large amps.

You might be fine, but the same may not apply to others.
[edit for typo]

I'm pretty fine. Or at least I've been told.

...actually, I've been running in the 1K+ range now for over 5 years. And you're right. Even Dave Green tried to convince me that an amp above 1500w or so was not a great idea. But I've got a few things going for me...and I think I run my gear in a thoughtful manner.

-I use HPFing in my signal chain by default. Set around 35hz. I also have since using a DSP power amp used a redundant HPF on board at roughly the same frequency.

-My tone is clean. I'm not hiding speaker distress with loads of distortion. I do have a envelope filter, but it rides in a separate crossed over effects loop which lets my lows remain clean while the upper mids and highs the the effects.

-I have a speaker setup that puts speakers up closer to my ears. I can easily hear if there's speaker distress and also since the speakers are at near-ear level I don't need to push the same volume to hear that many do with a speaker that's well below the waistline.

Fellow TB'er once described in a decidedly non-technical way---pants flapping bass. A tactile way of describing "slam".

To me this is a sign that someone needs either a second cabinet or an amp stand. I get a back massage when I play. The reason people need to get their pants flapping is that they're not hearing their speakers as well as they could.

I see the results of players who do get in trouble. Often.

Youth...enthusiasm...stupidity. Take your pick.

 

[ThisBass]

Back to the big power amps. I choose an amp to take any question of headroom out of the equation. You've got 'headroom' bottlenecks in a few places in your signal chain, so the more places you can eliminate them, the more freedom you have tonally and volume wise.

IME its not desirable and also not adivisable just to provide full (potential) amplifier headroom on stage in any combination with "average" bass cabinets.
In consequence it would mean to power "average" cabs with 2..3k Watt power just to provide amplifier "headroom" in any situation of the players fashion how to play the bass guitar.

I think its very clear that all kinds of dyanmics that come out of the instrument and also transient noise that comes naturally along with playing any stringed instrument might easily harm any "average" cab.
At least one of the possibilities to "protect" a woofer from over excursion was to "flatten" the signal envelope.
It also helps to provide a more "musical" tone and "feel" out of the amplifier at high volume levels.

I'm very sure some music genres provide a good basis for some bass playing with nearly full dyanmic charateristic (full signal envelope) of the instrument.
At 2:30 the bass guitar plays some solo, not sure this sound would fit to every music genre but,
personally I enjoy listening to this sound cause its way different to the "average" we are used to listen all night long

 

[agedhorse]

What are your recommendations for matching and amp to speakers? 1 to 1 with rms ratings?

This is typically a good rule of thumb, but some marketing departments don't understand the meaning of RMS and kind of make numbers up to suit their needs unfortunately.

 

[3rdcurve]

The manufacturer rates my cabs at 550 watts each. The big ice module seems like a perfect match. I actually used it with a single cab (before the matching cab arrived), and the difference between it and the Reidmar 750 was drastic. I have tried the pair with a bridged RMX 1450a (1400 Watts), and they took it in stride.

 

[agedhorse]

550 watts how?

 

[agedhorse]

I'm very sure some music genres provide a good basis for some bass playing with nearly full dyanmic charateristic (full signal envelope) of the instrument.
At 2:30 the bass guitar plays some solo, not sure this sound would fit to every music genre but,
personally I enjoy listening to this sound cause its way different to the "average" we are used to listen all night long

I've worked with Andy Narell many times, I used to handle sound for a lot of Windham Hill acts and several of their multi-act tours... until that came to a poor end.

 

[3rdcurve]

550 watts how?

Rms

 

[agedhorse]

Rms

Good.

What I have found when testing speakers is that some manufacturers (or at least their marketing departments) just spit something on paper without knowing what it means. I tested a speaker recently that boasted a 600 watt "RMS" power handling capability which I know immediately from looking at the drivers was pure BS and sure enough in testing failed within 2 hours at less than 300 watts RMS and made a lot of funny noises at low frequency higher crest factor segments. My guess is that the engineers said it was 300 watts RMS and 600 watts "program" or "peak" but the marketing guys just took the 600 watts and called it RMS. Pretty bogus actually, because some users will in good faith blow these speakers up.

I am not going to mention the name of the speaker as that's not right (and violates the TB CUP), but it just reinforces that there are a lot of inaccurate or incorrect claims being made in the name of "bigger (numbers) is better".

 

[3rdcurve]

Good.

What I have found when testing speakers is that some manufacturers (or at least their marketing departments) just spit something on paper without knowing what it means. I tested a speaker recently that boasted a 600 watt "RMS" power handling capability which I know immediately from looking at the drivers was pure BS and sure enough in testing failed within 2 hours at less than 300 watts RMS and made a lot of funny noises at low frequency higher crest factor segments. My guess is that the engineers said it was 300 watts RMS and 600 watts "program" or "peak" but the marketing guys just took the 600 watts and called it RMS. Pretty bogus actually, because some users will in good faith blow these speakers up.

I am not going to mention the name of the speaker as that's not right (and violates the TB CUP), but it just reinforces that there are a lot of inaccurate or incorrect claims being made in the name of "bigger (numbers) is better".

Yikes!

The rating may be conservative. Each cab has a kappalite based woofer (450 Watts rms per eminence), 2 mids and a compression driver for highs.

I noticed in Ed Freidland's review of the the Fearless f112, that Greenboy rates the cab for 900 watts. It doesn't specify rms or peak, but in the article he utilizes 1200 Watts of bridged carvin power.

 

[agedhorse]

Your mileage may vary.

 

[chadds]

He ended up selling it because he had to be pretty careful with all that power, and blew out a couple of rear ends.

You mean in his truck, right?

 

[J.Wolf]

I have to believe that low frequency filtering with an HPF is a better way to "protect" your drivers than lowering the number of watts your throwing at the cab. Assuming you have reasonable expectations for how loud you think your cab should be. If you don't then one way or another you're gonna blow something.

 

[bucephylus]

I have to believe that low frequency filtering with an HPF is a better way to "protect" your drivers than lowering the number of watts your throwing at the cab. Assuming you have reasonable expectations for how loud you think your cab should be. If you don't then one way or another you're gonna blow something.

+1 HPF's set correctly are invaluable.

 

[BurningSkies]

I have to believe that low frequency filtering with an HPF is a better way to "protect" your drivers than lowering the number of watts your throwing at the cab. Assuming you have reasonable expectations for how loud you think your cab should be. If you don't then one way or another you're gonna blow something.

You can still kill a speaker if you're using a decent HPF. You just maybe have to work at it a little more. It protects against low and infrasonic speaker movement, but that doesn't mean the stuff above that isn't moving the speaker either or that you can't overheat the coil. : ) I to find it to be effective for what I'm doing but if you're just really loud and/or pushing lots of compressed signal maybe not so much.

 

[J.Wolf]

as a OC-2/Octabvre user, I find the HPF to be pretty critical for me to feel comfortable leaning into those sounds at moderate volumes and up.

 

[BurningSkies]

as a OC-2/Octabvre user, I find the HPF to be pretty critical for me to feel comfortable leaning into those sounds at moderate volumes and up.

My envelope filter had some really really extreme sweeps even when it was set to have a bit more control in that region. The end thing that really works for me (and has allowed me to use a few other colors that sometimes don't work for bass)...is my Divaricator. It has an adjustable crossover and creates a sub-loop for the high side of the crossover point. It means I can insert stuff and keep my lows clean coherent and not abusive and still have fun in the upper regions. I don't use it much, but when I do, it's just the thing.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[agedhorse]

I have to believe that low frequency filtering with an HPF is a better way to "protect" your drivers than lowering the number of watts your throwing at the cab. Assuming you have reasonable expectations for how loud you think your cab should be. If you don't then one way or another you're gonna blow something.

It's one of the three ways to protect the drivers, the other ways are to reduce the power applied, and using good common sense by having enough rig for the gig. The best way is a combination of all of these.

You can still kill a speaker if you're using a decent HPF. You just maybe have to work at it a little more. It protects against low and infrasonic speaker movement, but that doesn't mean the stuff above that isn't moving the speaker either or that you can't overheat the coil. : ) I to find it to be effective for what I'm doing but if you're just really loud and/or pushing lots of compressed signal maybe not so much.

It's one part of the bigger picture for sure.

as a OC-2/Octabvre user, I find the HPF to be pretty critical for me to feel comfortable leaning into those sounds at moderate volumes and up.

This will go a long way to protect the drivers in this application. Speaker's mechanical power handling falls with frequency below the F10 point (and like a rock below F3), so reducing subsonic content raises the effective power handling at those frequencies.

 

[JGR]

Folks should keep in mind that in a typical reflex alignment, you hit peak excursion somewhere in the 60-90Hz range, followed by a dip as you move towards the tuning frequency, and then a rapid rise as you move lower still. There's more energy in the second harmonic of the B and E, so you can still blow drivers with a low pass filter engaged, even with a relatively flat EQ setting, if you are using too much power.