Why is the 1000 ASP ICE module not more popular?

[ThisBass]

When people use terms like Punch and Slam they're seldom discussing a waveform. They're talking about real world impression while playing. Punch and slam are not technical terms.

True, so I think we shouldn't confuse people with terms on the form of:

'slam' I've always taken to mean that there's plenty of headroom on the front end of the note envelope. "Punchy" to me is that the note envelope opens up quickly on the front edge.

 

[BurningSkies]

True, so I think we shouldn't confuse people with terms on the form of:

'slam' I've always taken to mean that there's plenty of headroom on the front end of the note envelope. "Punchy" to me is that the note envelope opens up quickly on the front edge.

Are you saying that people don't hear things like note envelope and that you have to look at a wave form to ascertain this? Because that's flat out not true.

 

[J.Wolf]

I'm hoping what he meant to say was "I don't hear things like note envelope", as it would be very silly to assume what other people who you've never met can hear or perceive.

 

[ThisBass]

Are you saying that people don't hear things like note envelope and that you have to look at a wave form to ascertain this? Because that's flat out not true.

What I'm saying is that even with NO envelope there can be plenty of "slam" and "punch"
Just consider a 6-string electric that shows a pure flat line "envelope" but pretty much of audible properties.

 

[BurningSkies]

What I'm saying is that even with NO envelope there can be plenty of "slam" and "punch"
Just consider a 6-string electric that shows a pure flat "envelope" but pretty much of audible properties.

You can still hear note envelope in 6 string guitars. Telecasters and Stratocasters in particular have specific envelopes.

 

[ThisBass]

You can still hear note envelope in 6 string guitars. Telecasters and Stratocasters in particular have specific envelopes.

6-string electrics are rarely amplified clean with headroom. Most of the time there is enough "saturation" to flatten the envelope. The sound may be clean to the ears but almost always its not.

Even a very distorted 6-string electric sound can provide audible 'slam" and 'punchy" sound.

 

[BurningSkies]

6-string electrics are rarely amplified clean with headroom. Most of the time there is enough "saturation" to flatten the envelope. The sound may be clean to the ears but almost always its not.

Even a very distorted 6-string electric sound can provide audible 'slam" and 'punchy" sound.

I'm not sure this actually disproves anything that anyone is saying? And I'm not convinced that just because there's distortion or 'saturation' it takes the concept of 'note envelope out of the equation.

 

[ThisBass]

I'm not sure this actually disproves anything that anyone is saying? And I'm not convinced that just because there's distortion or 'saturation' it takes the concept of 'note envelope out of the equation.

Let me tell it this way, the most popular bass amplifier known at all combines (inaudible) "flat envelope" with 'slam' and 'punch' that is hard to beat.

edit,
every design engineer tries kinda hard to get best balance of "smooth" response respectively "flat envelope" and wide open musical "feel" of 'slam' and 'punch'.

 

[BurningSkies]

...er... if you say so I guess? I think we should agree that maybe our perspectives are different on this and that the babble fish maybe is just not working like it should. I know a bunch of amp designers and I'm not sure they're looking at 'flat envelope' nor is that the end all goal. But hey, you do you.

 

[Passinwind]

...er... if you say so I guess? I think we should agree that maybe our perspectives are different on this and that the babble fish maybe is just not working like it should.

Yep same on my end. I honestly have no idea what slam and punch mean (sounds suspiciously like adspeak to me though), so therefore I never think at all about how to "enhance them." Anything that sounds brOOtal is not something I'm typically going after.

 

[The Deep End]

Yep same on my end. I honestly have no idea what slam and punch mean (sounds suspiciously like adspeak to me though), so therefore I never think at all about how to "enhance them." Anything that sounds brOOtal is not something I'm typically going after. View attachment 2786978

I find these words (slam, punch, boom, etc) useful. I mean what we're trying to describe is a visceral sensation / impression. If one's an audio engineer, your vocabulary increases and includes more technical terms, you can be more articulate. The rest of us need terms / imagery to convey what we hear.

 

[Passinwind]

I find these words (slam, punch, boom, etc) useful. I mean what we're trying to describe is a visceral sensation / impression. If one's an audio engineer, your vocabulary increases and includes more technical terms, you can be more articulate. The rest of us need terms / imagery to convey what we hear.

Roger that. I dealt with with it nearly daily for several decades (pretty much retired now though), but I still find very little commonality with what various players mean by those terms. Often times it seems to mostly translate to "louder, with a feel I personally like." As a tech/engineer wannabe, I tend to think more in terms of intervals, frequency ranges, pitch definition (harmonic series, etc.) ADSR envelopes, and so on. And I measure everything I possibly can as well. Vive la difference!

 

[dukeorock]

Whenever musicians use terms like 'slam' 'heft' 'quick' 'wooly' or what have you, someone is quick to come along to 'straighten everyone out'. I never assumed musicians were attempting to be literal when they use these terms and I personally think they can describe our perception of tone in a meaningful way. If someone uses esoteric terms I find silly, I just stay out of the conversation

 

[ahc]

Anything that sounds brOOtal is not something I'm typically going after. View attachment 2786978

Now you've gone and done it Charlie. Now we'll need a definition for "brOOtal".

 

[Passinwind]

Whenever musicians use terms like 'slam' 'heft' 'quick' 'wooly' or what have you, someone is quick to come along to 'straighten everyone out'. I never assumed musicians were attempting to be literal when they use these terms and I personally think they can describe our perception of tone in a meaningful way. If someone uses esoteric terms I find silly, I just stay out of the conversation

Cool. I'd rather find more and better common ground myself though.

 

[BurningSkies]

*BrOOdle

 

[Passinwind]

*BrOOdle

Don't make me come over there and heckle...

 

[BurningSkies]

Don't make me come over there and heckle...

Sit back and have another jellyjar of gin... you'll feel better.

*brooodle: at or near the onset of pain for the player or listener.

 

[Passinwind]

Sit back and have another jellyjar of gin... you'll feel better.

I have other plans.

Slam some brOOtal punch, fall down, go boom.

 

[John D Harris]

I'm sure everyone has preconceived ideas of what different descriptive audio terms mean.
For me, punch was about the speed & heft of lower midrange frequencies to upper bass frequencies, while slam was the same, but lower frequency range (like 50Hz & below, so punch to me is descriptive of above those frequencies).
YMMV / DSFDF / ETC...