Why is the 1000 ASP ICE module not more popular?

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Keep in mind that in a typical reflex alignment, you hit peak excursion somewhere in the 60-90Hz range, followed by a dip as you move towards the tuning frequency, and then a rapid rise as you move lower still. There's more energy in the second harmonic of the B and E, so you can still blow drivers with a low pass filter engaged, even with a relatively flat EQ setting, if you are using too much power.

In the recent video demo I did of how to record acoustic bass guitar, I was surprised by the number of dBs added with EQing. Especially throwing a tube preamp into the equation. Had to do some serious leveling to ensure each demo was the same volume.

Plus many bassists use various pedals in the chain. That can boost the signal even more. I was ferociously picking with a fuzz pedal when I blew out a 12/6 Kappa driver stacked on a 15/6 with lotsa watts. Guess those earplugs were (thankfully) working well!

 

[Passinwind]

as a OC-2/Octabvre user, I find the HPF to be pretty critical for me to feel comfortable leaning into those sounds at moderate volumes and up.

Just sinking in that you use an octaver and compressor frequently. Might explain a lot of why our experiences vary so greatly.

 

[jazzbass_5]

Not an ICE module.
Quilter Bass Block 800.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Andy, cool you worked with Andy Narrell. I've worked with his brother Jeff and recorded a project at Windham Hill studios in EPA. Good times.

 

[J.Wolf]

Just sinking in that you use an octaver and compressor frequently. Might explain a lot of why our experiences vary so greatly. View attachment 2788856

I use an empress compressor as an "always on" device. Very very light compression, but I like how it changes the feel a little bit. I use the octaver every now and again, but by no means do I have gigs where I can use it frequently. I don't think our experiences/desires are as different as it might seem. I eschewed effects for a long time, favoring a good sounding bass, great cable plugged directly into the front end of the amp.

 

[J.Wolf]

Might explain a lot of why our experiences vary so greatly. View attachment 2788856

I may have missed it, but how do our experiences vary so greatly? I ask because you are someone who I actually is on a similar wavelength re: tone priorities and performance goals. I'm much more of a clean tone junkie than an "effects guy"

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I love a clean clear tone most of the time but I do use a pedalboard now. I used effects in the past but mainly a plug and play guy for the last twenty years. This year I got into a project that required them so I'm back at it. But with a 1000 watt amp I am always a little nervous, especially when I use the octave and envelope filter, I sometimes add dirt to the equation as well. I use my board on my weekly jam but always unplug it when other guys sit in. I'm just not confident they will use their ears and might blow something up. If somethings going to go belly up I'd rather it was me doing the damage. As opposed to others who don't have a vested interest in the health of my gear.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I'd love to compare my MM1000 head to head with this 1000 watt power module. I'v done a side by side with the Quilter BB800 and they were fairly comparable. That is the heft/slam Dept. I couldn't do any critical listening as it was at my jam night.

 

[mothra2]

I use an empress compressor as an "always on" device. Very very light compression, but I like how it changes the feel a little bit ....

+1
I do the same ...subtle setting, but adds a bit of punch.

Of course, I'm using a discrete component rig that is very powerful and wide wide open as a starting point. Many of the more commercial 'all in one' solutions have this baked in IME ...

 

[slombovia]

IME its not desirable and also not adivisable just to provide full (potential) amplifier headroom on stage in any combination with "average" bass cabinets.
In consequence it would mean to power "average" cabs with 2..3k Watt power just to provide amplifier "headroom" in any situation of the players fashion how to play the bass guitar.

I think its very clear that all kinds of dyanmics that come out of the instrument and also transient noise that comes naturally along with playing any stringed instrument might easily harm any "average" cab.
At least one of the possibilities to "protect" a woofer from over excursion was to "flatten" the signal envelope.
It also helps to provide a more "musical" tone and "feel" out of the amplifier at high volume levels.

I'm very sure some music genres provide a good basis for some bass playing with nearly full dyanmic charateristic (full signal envelope) of the instrument.
At 2:30 the bass guitar plays some solo, not sure this sound would fit to every music genre but,
personally I enjoy listening to this sound cause its way different to the "average" we are used to listen all night long

One of my favorite Jazz Fusion albums. They were in the moment on this one. Slow Motion...

 

[J.Wolf]

I love a clean clear tone most of the time but I do use a pedalboard now. I used effects in the past but mainly a plug and play guy for the last twenty years. This year I got into a project that required them so I'm back at it. But with a 1000 watt amp I am always a little nervous, especially when I use the octave and envelope filter, I sometimes add dirt to the equation as well. I use my board on my weekly jam but always unplug it when other guys sit in. I'm just not confident they will use their ears and might blow something up. If somethings going to go belly up I'd rather it was me doing the damage. As opposed to others who don't have a vested interest in the health of my gear.

This is part of the reason I use an hpf (either an fdeck or an Omni cab sim) and a compressor. It's a nice little insurance policy against moments that could use better judgment. So far I have flogged my Bergantino cabinets with this amp in bars and larger stages and haven't blown anything up. I feel like reasonable expectations and responsible use to go a lot farther than Limited wattage ratings in not blowing up stuff.

 

[tedsalt]

I would be interested in hearing any differences between the 1000 watt ice amp, the miniMega 1000, and the Quilter BB800. I like what I've heard about the Quilter. I've had a Hartke LH1000, and really liked the headroom. One of these days I'd like something similar in a smaller format, with this so called heft / slam ...

Are there any reliability issues with any of these?

 

[J.Wolf]

never one hiccup from mine.

I have a quilter and a 1000. I bought the Quilter because it was the only micro amp that had the heft/impact of the 1000 in the low end, that I have heard. Given the quilters limited albeit cool filters/eq, I think of it as a glorified power section. It is really great.

 

[ThisBass]

This is part of the reason I use an hpf (either an fdeck or an Omni cab sim) and a compressor. It's a nice little insurance policy against moments that could use better judgment. So far I have flogged my Bergantino cabinets with this amp in bars and larger stages and haven't blown anything up. I feel like reasonable expectations and responsible use to go a lot farther than Limited wattage ratings in not blowing up stuff.

Sorry to say but compressores are not meant as to be protecting tools. With a compressor you will push more of average to the cab. This can be helpfull if there is not enough headroom (powerwise) or if there is need to balance the average (RMS) for a tune.
Compressors gain transient noise. Without a HPF a compressor may enhance (random) excessive cone excursion because transient noise will then be more present in a "more" averaged signal.
Reggae sounds are typical compressed sounds that pretty much can strain drivers.
Same is for typical DJ Techno music bass sounds

 

[agedhorse]

Compression can change the cause of damage from mechanical to thermal pretty easily. Esopecially is somebody is powering the cabinet beyond the "RMS" rating of the driver (which under most rating standards is a "must survive for 2 hours" event and damage is allowed.

 

[J.Wolf]

i hear that. I run mine more like a limiter to tame transient peaks but I understand how compression can lead to driver damage in a different way, as you mentioned.

 

[ThisBass]

i hear that. I run mine more like a limiter to tame transient peaks but I understand how compression can lead to driver damage in a different way, as you mentioned.

Independent of attack time adjustment and independent of compression ratio (expressed in dB numbers) every compressor and limiter let through some (brief) signal content that is as high as if there was no processing to the signal.
Some compressors like DBX provide a Peak Stop level feature just to savely "limit" the brief unprocessed signal content that can't be processed by compressor and limiter.

 

[J.Wolf]

Couldn't one make a similar argument that an hpf could hurt a rig, by letting a cab work closer to its mechanical limit by controlling some of its extreme excursion, just shy of blowing something for longer periods of time?

 

[Passinwind]

Couldn't one make a similar argument that an hpf could hurt a rig, by letting a cab work closer to its mechanical limit by controlling some of its extreme excursion, just shy of blowing something for longer periods of time?

FWIW, @alexclaber has posted warnings against overzealous HPF settings for his cabs due to that diminishing cooling capacity afforded by the "dreaded" pistonic motion. Yet another thing to factor into the tradeoffs matrix, perhaps.

 

[agedhorse]

Couldn't one make a similar argument that an hpf could hurt a rig, by letting a cab work closer to its mechanical limit by controlling some of its extreme excursion, just shy of blowing something for longer periods of time?

Yes, to some extent, but not so much if powered by an amp close to the rated "RMS" value of the driver (due to the addition of duty cycle into the equation).

In general, more damage in bass speakers is due to mechanical rather than thermal limits.