Why is the 1000 ASP ICE module not more popular?

[J.Wolf]

The Icepower 1000ASP module is amazing in it's absolute power, seemingly unlimited headroom, and its apparent quickness and clean percussiveness.

THIS

 

[jnewmark]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the data sheet : Link Removed

 

[tombowlus]

So which power modules are the Magellan 800 and the Subway 800 using? I know I could go skim the threads but someone surly knows off the top of their head.

They both use the new 700w ICEpower module (as does the Bergantino B|Amp).

 

[emjazz]

Anyone know what Acoustic Image uses in their newer amps?

 

[nutdog]

They both use the new 700w ICEpower module (as does the Bergantino B|Amp).

Oh...then I don't have a 250 amp. But I know it's loud, black and has knobs.

 

[tombowlus]

Oh...then I don't have a 250 amp. But I know it's loud, black and has knobs.

I have been very impressed with the new 700ASC/X module, so far (as heard in the Magellan, D-800 and B|Amp).

 

[Bassmann1968]

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the data sheet : Link Removed

Easy to find the data sheet, I wish it were like that with the modules.

 

[nutdog]

I'm not discounting what others hear and feel in the 1000. It may very well be "the best". To borrow from my industrial engineering background, the best solution is not always the best solution. Generally I'm looking for the best feasible solution.

 

[J.Wolf]

I played a gig last night with the Sonic Farm > RAD1000 > 4ohm DNS410. No FOH support, outdoor banquet hall with 800 people. The rig SLAMMED. I mean, effortless huge Slam. I have never gotten that kind of power delivery from my Puma900, which i regard as a pretty darn well executed 250 based amp. I've not gigged an MB800 or MBF800, which I know Tom mentioned as potentially the best executed 250 based amp out there, but again, it was so shockingly night and day, power delivery wise, compared to, say Sonic Farm > Puma FX return.

I'm not sure that this illustrates much beyond my personal satisfaction with this rig, but in my mind, the difference in headroom and attack delivery was so starkly improved with this power section, that regardless of the technical reality of whats feasible with different modules, when the rubber meets the road, for me, there is a palpable difference in the not only the effortlessless-ness, but also the sheer enjoyment factor.

 

[J.Wolf]

sorry for the gratuitous use of commas and run on sentences. not enough coffee yet.

 

[nutdog]

I played a gig last night with the Sonic Farm > RAD1000 > 4ohm DNS410. No FOH support, outdoor banquet hall with 800 people. The rig SLAMMED. I mean, effortless huge Slam. I have never gotten that kind of power delivery from my Puma900, which i regard as a pretty darn well executed 250 based amp. I've not gigged an MB800 or MBF800, which I know Tom mentioned as potentially the best executed 250 based amp out there, but again, it was so shockingly night and day, power delivery wise, compared to, say Sonic Farm > Puma FX return.

I'm not sure that this illustrates much beyond my personal satisfaction with this rig, but in my mind, the difference in headroom and attack delivery was so starkly improved with this power section, that regardless of the technical reality of whats feasible with different modules, when the rubber meets the road, for me, there is a palpable difference in the not only the effortlessless-ness, but also the sheer enjoyment factor.

Feasibility involves more than technical issues. For instance, your sonic farm alone costs more than either of my heads.

The original question wasn't 'why doesn't everyone think it sounds and feels better' but 'why is it not more popular'. Cost and convenience are factors.

I took my booteek head to several gigs. It actually robbed me of some enjoyment. Singer almost knocked it off the cabs once. Kids, drunks, drunk kids... Seemed like there was a sign on it that said TRY TO DESTROY ME.

I don't want to sound like one those 'my squier is better than your fodera' guys. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. But I've actually gotten more comments on bass sound since going to the minimega and subway the last few months than I did over the last few years. Probably coincidental.

 

[Deadsound]

But I've actually gotten more comments on bass sound since going to the minimega and subway the last few months than I did over the last few years. Probably coincidental.

I don't think it's coincidental at all, I think it's the power sections and their implementations

 

[bucephylus]

So, is the 1200 the only amp using the 1000 ICE module at the moment? I am unaware of others.

Point being that until we get several implementations of all three modules out there where we, as players, can put them through their paces, I don't think we really know what the actual performance differences vs price are. Glad to see the 700 now in available hardware. Waiting for more 1000 platforms. (drums fingers on table)

While I am amazed and pleased with what some of the available SMPS designs do, I'm also a little disappointed that the bass market is apparently not big enough for designs of the bigger supplies to find their way into the market. I respect Andy's experience, but have to say that we need to use these designs on the gig before we will know what works best and what the cost trade-offs might be. Until we see more designs, I'm sticking with what I've got.

Guess I feel a bit frustrated and aware once again that electric bass players do not constitute an important market. How is it that cats are now playing $5k level basses at gigs; but, the advanced amp market isn't apparently sufficiently attractive for amp heads that might be half that or less?

 

[TomB]

Maybe I missed it, but does anyone know which module Peavey's using in its new Mini-Mega 1000 head?

 

[Passinwind]

My recollection is that the finicky'ness of the Berg IP cabs was more about a given preamp not getting along with the power amp's built-in DSP that was implemented by Bergantino. The 1000 module without Berg's DSP is likely to be more "predictable."

The berg IP's were expensive and relatively heavy. There seemed to be a lot of people saying they were finicky about preamps.

The plate amp in the Berg accounted for all of 7 pounds of the total system weight. In my own implementation of that plate amp (i.e. using my own DSP programming for input gain structure) I have never encountered any trouble driving it with any of several preamps I've tried using it with. That includes some very modest DIY builds from over a decade ago.

So, is the 1200 the only amp using the 1000 ICE module at the moment? I am unaware of others.

Point being that until we get several implementations of all three modules out there where we, as players, can put them through their paces, I don't think we really know what the actual performance differences vs price are. Glad to see the 700 now in available hardware. Waiting for more 1000 platforms. (drums fingers on table)

I've been gigging with mine since 2007. I also built an amp using the 500ASP a couple of years ago, which I actually slightly prefer to my 1000ASP rigs. And then I built two implementations of the 700ASC, which sound substantially different from each other. The 700ASC suits my building and playing needs pretty much perfectly, as I simply never need all the extra power the 1000ASP makes. I'm pretty much all about the caress and cork sniffing detail, not slam. Vive la difference.

I can get what I want out of any of those rigs though, so the 1000ASP rig will get the least love going forward just based on form factor, I think. I have no direct experience with the 250ASX2, but the 125ASX2 power section in a GK MB Fusion 500 worked just fine as a sub for the 700ASC in my head to head testing. I never push the power sections hard in my amps though, and I actually used the 1000ASP with various single 12 cabs (one cab at a time, not multiples) on hundreds of gigs very happily. I understand why guys like Andy and Roger recommend against that approach, but it has always worked much better for me than being rational...Link Removed

 

[Passinwind]

Maybe I missed it, but does anyone know which module Peavey's using in its new Mini-Mega 1000 head?

It's proprietary to Peavey.

 

[bucephylus]

I've been gigging with mine since 2007. I also built an amp using the 500ASP a couple of years ago, which I actually slightly prefer to my 1000ASP rigs. And then I built two implementations of the 700ASC, which sound substantially different from each other. The 700ASC suits my building and playing and needs pretty much perfectly, as I simply never need all the extra power the 1000ASP makes. I'm pretty much all about the caress and cork sniffing detail, not slam. Vive la difference.

I can get what I want out of any of those rigs though, so the 1000ASP rig will get the least love going forward just based on form factor, I think. I have no direct experience with the 250ASX2, but the 125ASX2 power section in a GK MB Fusion 500 worked just fine as a sub for the 700ASC in my head to head testing. I never push the power sections hard in my amps though, and I actually used the 1000ASP with various single 12 cabs (one cab at a time, not multiples) on hundreds of gigs very happily. I understand why guys like Andy and Roger recommend against that approach, but it has always worked much better for me than being rational...Link Removed

Great post, Charlie. Very illuminating.

 

[J.Wolf]

Feasibility involves more than technical issues. For instance, your sonic farm alone costs more than either of my heads.

The original question wasn't 'why doesn't everyone think it sounds and feels better' but 'why is it not more popular'. Cost and convenience are factors.

I took my booteek head to several gigs. It actually robbed me of some enjoyment. Singer almost knocked it off the cabs once. Kids, drunks, drunk kids... Seemed like there was a sign on it that said TRY TO DESTROY ME.

I don't want to sound like one those 'my squier is better than your fodera' guys. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. But I've actually gotten more comments on bass sound since going to the minimega and subway the last few months than I did over the last few years. Probably coincidental.

Please extrapolate from my OP: Why isnt the 1000ASP more popular (since it performs so amazingly well)?

If I was constantly worried about my gear in the gig settings I play, I too would opt for a lower stress situation over the most nirvanic tone. Fortunately I have been playing less of those kinds of gigs, and I don't worry about that stuff anyways (for whatever reason), so its a non issue.

If you're getting desirable results from your rig, no reason to swap it out for a higher dollar setup. Dollars dont equal better anyways, but IME, to get the kind of performance/results I'm after, it just so happens that this is the setup that delivers it. YMMV

 

[nutdog]

I don't think it's coincidental at all, I think it's the power sections and their implementations

I think it's a combination of that, cabs, basses and me. Seriously, in an effort to raise money for my daughter's car I've stumbled upon an incredibly portable set of gear that works and sounds just like I want it to at a fraction of the cost.

The plate amp in the Berg accounted for all of 7 pounds of the total system weight. In my own implementation of that plate amp (i.e. using my own DSP programming for input gain structure) I have never encountered any trouble driving it with any of several preamps I've tried using it with. That includes some very modest DIY builds from over a decade ago.

Not knocking the IP or the 1000 but as an example of a 1000 implementation it has other characteristics that probably prevented popularity.

Please extrapolate from my OP: Why isnt the 1000ASP more popular (since it performs so amazingly well)?

I thought that's what I was doing.

If I was constantly worried about my gear in the gig settings I play, I too would opt for a lower stress situation over the most nirvanic tone. Fortunately I have been playing less of those kinds of gigs, and I don't worry about that stuff anyways (for whatever reason), so its a non issue.

Those kind of gigs? Chamber of Commerce black tie dinner (singer incident), backing my son's school band woodwind quartet at the teacher's request, wedding receptions, swanky club parties...

YMMV

Definitely. Nirvanic tone means different things to different people. I'm not carrying a 79lb 410 no matter how good it sounds.

I'm no pro. Just a part timer with a wife and 3 teenagers. I have to balance music with braces, cars, kitchen appliances, insurance, college... There are probably more bass amp customers like me than players that spare no expense in pursuit of bass perfection.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, just laying out some reasons why the 1000 may not be popular. I could be wrong. It may be a conspiracy between aliens, freemasons and Ted Cruz.

 

[12bass]

Hopefully someday the government will finally release the alien amplifier technology they've kept under wraps at Area 51....