Willcox Bass Club (Lightwave)

[younggun]

Hi Lightwave people! I'm hoping for a bit of help here:
I am debating between purchasing a HexFx bass, or having one of my current basses modded with the FretTrax system (link here: Invalid Link Removed ). I would be doing this specifically for a bass to use with midi.
Is anyone here that has a HexFX, willing to comment on how well the lightwave system works in transmitting midi signals? Particularly regarding latency, and also if there are issues with sympathetic string and/or harmonic vibrations being picked up and transmitted as notes? My current setup has both those issues ( I am using a bass set up with a Roland GK-3B pickup outputting to a Roland GR-55, and am not satisfied with it).
The FretTrax conversion looks like a good solution to the latency issues, and it only picks up and transmits midi signals from the frets...meaning that open string vibration and harmonics are not transmitted as midi at all. This seems like a good solution, but the cost to have my bass modded is about the same as buying a new HexFX bass. The other downside to the FretTrax mod, is that I am a little leery of having my high end custom bass drilled and cut on (which is required for the conversion).

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Sorry younggun I got nothin'. @kirkdickinson I thank you for your patience. The bass I bought was the GC bass you linked to. I was watching it and bought it before you posted the link I think.
Looking back even a couple of pages I see you repeating the same things. The learning curve on these is only initially daunting as you get used to the different setup procedure. After doing it 3 or 4 times, getting it set the way I wanted, I've gotten fairly adept and it's really quite simple. Simply different. Just redid it again tonight. And I think it's about where I want it. A small quibble would be the rather coarse threads on the bridge string hight screws.
While trying to research this bass I've noticed that every pic I can find of a SL Hybred 5 has a switch in addition to the knobs. My bass does not have a switch. I also noticed inside the back panel there is a daughterboard with a single small pot on it. When watching the online vid I didn't see that inside the back. Just had a duho moment. I'll bet it's the Magnetic pickup vol. I hope so I'd like to turn it down. Or off to compare the sounds.
Also wondering about how to date this SN S070510762

 

[kirkdickinson]

Sorry younggun I got nothin'. @kirkdickinson I thank you for your patience. The bass I bought was the GC bass you linked to. I was watching it and bought it before you posted the link I think.
Looking back even a couple of pages I see you repeating the same things. The learning curve on these is only initially daunting as you get used to the different setup procedure. After doing it 3 or 4 times, getting it set the way I wanted, I've gotten fairly adept and it's really quite simple. Simply different. Just redid it again tonight. And I think it's about where I want it. A small quibble would be the rather coarse threads on the bridge string hight screws.
While trying to research this bass I've noticed that every pic I can find of a SL Hybred 5 has a switch in addition to the knobs. My bass does not have a switch. I also noticed inside the back panel there is a daughterboard with a single small pot on it. When watching the online vid I didn't see that inside the back. Just had a duho moment. I'll bet it's the Magnetic pickup vol. I hope so I'd like to turn it down. Or off to compare the sounds.
Also wondering about how to date this SN S070510762

Glad you figured out the setup. Not sure about the switch because I have only had the regular Lightwave basses, never a hybrid.

I think the daughterboard is a tone control for the mag pickup.

You can contact Chris Wilcox with the SN and find out more information. He was helpful on both of mine. I know they are a bigger and busier company now, so it might take longer to get the S/N info.

Kirk

 

[kirkdickinson]

Hi Lightwave people! I'm hoping for a bit of help here:
I am debating between purchasing a HexFx bass, or having one of my current basses modded with the FretTrax system (link here: Invalid Link Removed ). I would be doing this specifically for a bass to use with midi.
Is anyone here that has a HexFX, willing to comment on how well the lightwave system works in transmitting midi signals? Particularly regarding latency, and also if there are issues with sympathetic string and/or harmonic vibrations being picked up and transmitted as notes? My current setup has both those issues ( I am using a bass set up with a Roland GK-3B pickup outputting to a Roland GR-55, and am not satisfied with it).
The FretTrax conversion looks like a good solution to the latency issues, and it only picks up and transmits midi signals from the frets...meaning that open string vibration and harmonics are not transmitted as midi at all. This seems like a good solution, but the cost to have my bass modded is about the same as buying a new HexFX bass. The other downside to the FretTrax mod, is that I am a little leery of having my high end custom bass drilled and cut on (which is required for the conversion).

Can't help you here. I am not familiar with any of those. I think you would be very happy with the tracking and the string isolation of the HexFX from what I have heard.

I was curious about the FretTraX system. Sparked a memory. When I lived in LA in the 80's there was an article in one of the local musicians magazines about a luthier at Guitar Center that was doing a midi conversion for basses. The conversion required the removal of the fret board for wiring. They redid the frets and cut them between each string to isolate them electrically and put mono bridges on. When you pressed the string down to the fret, it made an electrical connection and that was converted to a MIDI note that was sent out a midi cable to your choice of devices. If I remember the latency was zero because of the simplicity. I don't think it had the capability to bend the notes.

I wonder if anybody else remembers that?

 

[younggun]

Thanks for the replies. So over the last few days I made a decision to go ahead and purchase the Wilcox Lightwave HexFx, based on a couple of factors. First , modding one of my current basses would cost exactly the same as a HexFx bass, so why not get a new axe if it serves my purpose...next Wilcox offers a 15 day money back guarantee. If the bass doesn't work the way I want, I can just send it back and fall back to modding my bass.
I went ahead and ordered the HexFx yesterday. It was shown as being on a 12 week backorder. Got a call the next day from Wicox, and was told the reason for the backorder was that there is a new production line of the HexFx coming out. There are a few cosmetic changes and they are now offering it in 5 different colors (red, yellow, lime green, gloss black, and matte black). I was emailed a pic of the colors to choose from (I stuck with gloss black). The price of the HexFx is going up some when the new line is officially released...so if you are considering purchasing one, now is the time. You'd get the new line at the old price. I was also told the 12 week estimate was erring on the side of caution and realistically, it should be completed sooner.
Will post pics and a review when it comes in.

 

[younggun]

Can't help you here. I am not familiar with any of those. I think you would be very happy with the tracking and the string isolation of the HexFX from what I have heard.

I was curious about the FretTraX system. Sparked a memory. When I lived in LA in the 80's there was an article in one of the local musicians magazines about a luthier at Guitar Center that was doing a midi conversion for basses. The conversion required the removal of the fret board for wiring. They redid the frets and cut them between each string to isolate them electrically and put mono bridges on. When you pressed the string down to the fret, it made an electrical connection and that was converted to a MIDI note that was sent out a midi cable to your choice of devices. If I remember the latency was zero because of the simplicity. I don't think it had the capability to bend the notes.

I wonder if anybody else remembers that?

That is pretty much exactly what the FreTrax system is, except they don't remove the fingerboard. Instead they route a small channel for a wire on the neck then fill it back in. They also add a board, knob, button switch, and output. Adding the new board requires them to route a recess in the rear of the bass. All of that adds up to quite a bit of cutting and drillng, and doing that to one of my custom basses makes me pretty nervous.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

I .....must.........obey......the.....mantra.... NP/NB!

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Didn't Parker build MIDI basses too? I have some recollection of that back about 10-15 yrs ago.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Hey @kirkdickinson, thanks for your help, much appreciated. And hey great name. I plan on giving them a call when I get a chance. I tried turning the single pot on the daughterboard and I think its a vol pot. But after messing with it briefly I decided to turn it down a bit. The whole bass still seems a bit bass heavy and the mid sweep isnt where I'd prefer but it workable. My drummer who has a quality studio said its one of the best sounding basses he's ever heard. And he's got darn good ears. Also I'm going to gig it tonight and Sunday and give it a good workout.

 

[ghostinthemach]

Hi all, been on talkbass for a while now and just stumbled onto Club Lightwave.
Got mine a few years ago.

Would love to join Club Lightwave

 

[Witness412]

Can someone give me more info about the midi system in these guitar? I would image they work on more than just a Roland GR55? I should be able to use any hardware or software synths?

 

[kirkdickinson]

Can someone give me more info about the midi system in these guitar? I would image they work on more than just a Roland GR55? I should be able to use any hardware or software synths?

Witness412, someone else will have to chime in. I only have the non-midi versions.

There is a setup video for the Atlantis HexFX. I think the electronics are nearly the same, so setup should be the same.

 

[kirkdickinson]

I added some new member numbers. @Les Ismoor @Single Coil @disciplejc @lotusland9663 @Kirk Bryant @Ghostinthemach

Chris Willcox #1
Marko5657 #2
TRichardsbass #4
kirkdickinson #5
kiwi60 #6
QweziRider #7
IGotGas #8
joenoone #9
basehed #10
TimWinter #11
LightSaberSF #12
warwickhunt #13
Les Ismoor #14
Single Coil #15
disciplejc #16
lotusland9663 #17
Kirk Bryant #18
Ghostinthemach #19

 

[ghostinthemach]

Thank you @kirkdickinson !

 

[younggun]

Can someone give me more info about the midi system in these guitar? I would image they work on more than just a Roland GR55? I should be able to use any hardware or software synths?

I literally just received my new HexFX today...haven't even opened it yet, as I am at work. I will give a small review tomorrow when I open it up. But, to answer your questions, the output from the bass is NOT midi. It has a 13 pin DIN connector that will output data from each individual string (i.e what note is struck, how hard, decay etc.) but this is analog data, and not midi. In order to use midi, you have to have a device that will convert the analog signals from each string into midi data. The 13 pin DIN connector is an industry standard though, and will work with a variety of different devices. The Roland GR55 has a multitude of synth sounds that can be triggered by the 13 pin connection, but it also has the ability to convert the sound data to midi, and then transmit that out...allowing you to use your bass to trigger any midi controlled device (along with all the GR55 sounds too). There are also other different stand alone midi converters that utilize the 13 pin DIN connection, that you can then use to trigger whatever midi devices you have. I have an older Yamaha converter that I had been using before I got my GR55. I would use it to trigger a sound module, and it worked pretty decent.

 

[Witness412]

I literally just received my new HexFX today...haven't even opened it yet, as I am at work. I will give a small review tomorrow when I open it up. But, to answer your questions, the output from the bass is NOT midi. It has a 13 pin DIN connector that will output data from each individual string (i.e what note is struck, how hard, decay etc.) but this is analog data, and not midi. In order to use midi, you have to have a device that will convert the analog signals from each string into midi data. The 13 pin DIN connector is an industry standard though, and will work with a variety of different devices. The Roland GR55 has a multitude of synth sounds that can be triggered by the 13 pin connection, but it also has the ability to convert the sound data to midi, and then transmit that out...allowing you to use your bass to trigger any midi controlled device (along with all the GR55 sounds too). There are also other different stand alone midi converters that utilize the 13 pin DIN connection, that you can then use to trigger whatever midi devices you have. I have an older Yamaha converter that I had been using before I got my GR55. I would use it to trigger a sound module, and it worked pretty decent.

Thank you. My concern is I don't see many 13 pin Din connectors on the market. I know of a few but they are all older and discontinued. Just wondering how much I am going to spend on a interface or even find one and I would rather not have a Roland Gr55 on my board.

 

[Single Coil]

I literally just received my new HexFX today...haven't even opened it yet, as I am at work. I will give a small review tomorrow when I open it up. But, to answer your questions, the output from the bass is NOT midi. It has a 13 pin DIN connector that will output data from each individual string (i.e what note is struck, how hard, decay etc.) but this is analog data, and not midi. In order to use midi, you have to have a device that will convert the analog signals from each string into midi data. The 13 pin DIN connector is an industry standard though, and will work with a variety of different devices. The Roland GR55 has a multitude of synth sounds that can be triggered by the 13 pin connection, but it also has the ability to convert the sound data to midi, and then transmit that out...allowing you to use your bass to trigger any midi controlled device (along with all the GR55 sounds too). There are also other different stand alone midi converters that utilize the 13 pin DIN connection, that you can then use to trigger whatever midi devices you have. I have an older Yamaha converter that I had been using before I got my GR55. I would use it to trigger a sound module, and it worked pretty decent.

I am happy to tell the group that I am about to add my third Lightwave to my bass stable. I currently own a fretted SL5 and a fretless VL5. I should have a fretted 5 HexFX in a couple weeks (buying used).

I also happen to own a Novation BassStation2 synth and would very much like to control it with my new bass. I would very much appreciate anyone telling me how I could make that happen. Are there any converters on the market currently?

 

[younggun]

Thank you. My concern is I don't see many 13 pin Din connectors on the market. I know of a few but they are all older and discontinued. Just wondering how much I am going to spend on a interface or even find one and I would rather not have a Roland Gr55 on my board.

I am happy to tell the group that I am about to add my third Lightwave to my bass stable. I currently own a fretted SL5 and a fretless VL5. I should have a fretted 5 HexFX in a couple weeks (buying used).

I also happen to own a Novation BassStation2 synth and would very much like to control it with my new bass. I would very much appreciate anyone telling me how I could make that happen. Are there any converters on the market currently?

13 pin din cables are pretty easy to get, multiple companies sell them new. As far as midi converters are concerned, they are a little harder to come by nowadays as no one is really making a stand alone box new anymore. It was a novel technology for a little while, and I think that novelty has worn off now. Roland products are pretty much the cream of the crop now, and they are keeping the technology alive by combining it into their effects pedals (ala the GR55).
You can still pick up some older used midi converters pretty easily, like the Roland GI-20 or Yamaha G50. I got a Yamaha G50 off of Ebay a few months back for less than $100 that works well for what it is. The biggest issue that most people run into (myself included) with converting to midi from a bass guitar is latency, tracking, and false triggering. This is mostly due to the source, not the converter. I have been using a Roland GK3B pickup system on my current bass. It is basically an aftermarket pickup that you install onto your bass, that picks up individual string vibration and sends it through the 13 pin Din cable. I still had a lot of latency issues, especially with lower notes, and there can be a fair amount of false triggering due to sympathetic string vibrations or harmonics being converted to midi signals. Thus why I purchased the Lightwave HexFx bass. The pickup system is supposed to be superior in dealing with those issues. I will find out tomorrow how true that is when I set it up and play. Supposedly the best systems for midi triggering are custom made instruments or mods, that are designed to output a midi signal directly from your bass...midi basses are hard to come by though, or if you convert your bass, it is an extensive and expensive (equaling the cost of a new bass) modification. (refer to my posts above from August 1st).

 

[Single Coil]

Thanks for the reply younggun. I have no reservations about buying a GR55 if that is the best solution. That will allow me to use my analog BassStation as well as the GR55 and all of its options.

I'm not opposed to spending more money on this...I started creating sounds on analog synths back in the mid 1980's on a couple of ARP 2600's and recording everything to 4-track tape. Unfortunately, I am not a very good keyboardist. I'm hoping to be able to combine the best of both worlds.

 

[younggun]

Thanks for the reply younggun. I have no reservations about buying a GR55 if that is the best solution. That will allow me to use my analog BassStation as well as the GR55 and all of its options.

I'm not opposed to spending more money on this...I started creating sounds on analog synths back in the mid 1980's on a couple of ARP 2600's and recording everything to 4-track tape. Unfortunately, I am not a very good keyboardist. I'm hoping to be able to combine the best of both worlds.

I'm with you on not being a great keyboardist, but wanting to be able to have access to the options and creativity of different sounds. The GR55 is really a fantastic device, I really would recommend it as a good solution for midi functions if you are willing to spend the money. I have barely scratched the surface on mine (the learning curve is a bit steep, if you get one definitely go through the GR55 threads here on TB for useful tips). There's a lot of onboard sounds that are great themselves, but I'm hoping the HexFx will give me the functionality I want to use the GR55's midi conversion to operate a few other synth modules I have. It does work with my current set up to run my other synths using the midi-out, but like I said, latency and false triggering are a problem that I hope to have solved with the new bass. It would definitely work for you as a midi converter, it has the option to use a standard midi cable or a usb to transmit midi data out. So as long as your Nova Bass Station (or any other synth) is controllable via midi input, it would be a perfect solution. You'll probably find it to be a great addition to your sound set-up overall with all its other features too.