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Winter 2017 Build Off - Speak of the Devil

#241
Rôckhewer said:
....Nexy, please forgive my interruption, but I would really like to ask Bruce to expound on this subject, if that's ok...

So then, it is ok to install frets on top of finish coats?
I wanted to do that on a maple boarded build I did, but I was concerned that seating the frets on top of finish would somehow make them ...unstable?.
So I sprayed over them afterwards. And of course due certain...circumstances ...I got some pretty intense orange peel texture that needed to be sanded out. Thus began an extremely painstaking process of level sanding by starting at the first (widest) fret with a thin strip of wood for a sanding block...and hand planing it down to the proper width for each subsequent fret.
It came out ok...but I vowed to never do it again, that way....
But, if is is acceptable to apply a thin layer of finish prior to fret intallation... would it be prudent to make sure each fret was thoroughly glued in?
I'm not sure why I feel it would be dangerous to install (seat) frets on top of finish coats...
BUT if I need not worry...that would be fantastic!
Please share any reassurances if so inclined?
This is the maple board I spoke of.
I would love to do more....just not the way I did this one.View attachment 1041681
Click to expand...


I always finish a maple board before fretting. Just make sure the finish isn't so thick that it tried to crack when you press the frets in. I don't usually glue my frets in either and I have never had an issue. If you think about it, the cured finish is a harder surface to seat against than the fret board.
 
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#242
Rôckhewer said:
....Nexy, please forgive my interruption, but I would really like to ask Bruce to expound on this subject, if that's ok...

So then, it is ok to install frets on top of finish coats?
I wanted to do that on a maple boarded build I did, but I was concerned that seating the frets on top of finish would somehow make them ...unstable?.
So I sprayed over them afterwards. And of course due certain...circumstances ...I got some pretty intense orange peel texture that needed to be sanded out. Thus began an extremely painstaking process of level sanding by starting at the first (widest) fret with a thin strip of wood for a sanding block...and hand planing it down to the proper width for each subsequent fret.
It came out ok...but I vowed to never do it again, that way....
But, if is is acceptable to apply a thin layer of finish prior to fret intallation... would it be prudent to make sure each fret was thoroughly glued in?
I'm not sure why I feel it would be dangerous to install (seat) frets on top of finish coats...
BUT if I need not worry...that would be fantastic!
Please share any reassurances if so inclined?
This is the maple board I spoke of.
I would love to do more....just not the way I did this one.View attachment 1041681
Click to expand...

Not a problem Kevin, I'm interested in Bruce's response as well. In the mean time, you need to head over to the Tech Shop and watch the laser for me because I need to get a cup of ☕️

image.jpg
 
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#243
Hopkins said:
I always finish a maple board before fretting. Just make sure the finish isn't so thick that it tried to crack when you press the frets in. I don't usually glue my frets in either and I have never had an issue. If you think about it, the cured finish is a harder surface to seat against than the fret board.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much for weighing in on that question Paul....:thumbsup:
 
#244
Can you apply a finish like Tru-Oil, or Stewmac Fingerboard oil after fretting? Its nearly as shiny as gloss finish, but since it's wipe on, I would think easier to work around frets. There is always the Ric method of spraying a clear gloss Finish over the frets, which gets partially removed during crowning. How does Fender do it on maple fingerboards?
 
#245
Rockhewer:
I haven't built any of my own basses with maple fingerboards, but if I did, I would definitely finish and buff out the fingerboard completely before installing the frets. Unless you are set up with a dust-free UV-curing polyester spray booth, the process of finishing the fingerboard is going to require a lot of sanding, recoating, and buffing out. Trying to do that between the frets is crazy.

While spraying most of the coats, I'd probably put the brass strips in the slots, to keep most of the bulk of the finish out of the inside of the slots. When it's all buffed and looking good, I'd clean out the slots with the saw. Then put in the frets in the normal manner.

I always glue my frets in, mostly to make sure that the slots are sealed up against moisture. I use LMI's Instrument Maker's Glue, thinned a bit with water, in a syringe with a thin needle. I lay a thin bead down in 5 slots, let it settle in for a few minutes, then press in those 5 frets. Repeat down the neck. The LMI glue acts as a lubricant, adds some extra grip, and makes the slot water tight. I let it dry overnight, then trim and level the frets.
 
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#246
Bruce Johnson said:
Rockhewer:
I haven't built any of my own basses with maple fingerboards, but if I did, I would definitely finish and buff out the fingerboard completely before installing the frets. Unless you are set up with a dust-free UV-curing polyester spray booth, the process of finishing the fingerboard is going to require a lot of sanding, recoating, and buffing out. Trying to do that between the frets is crazy.

While spraying most of the coats, I'd probably put the brass strips in the slots, to keep most of the bulk of the finish out of the inside of the slots. When it's all buffed and looking good, I'd clean out the slots with the saw. Then put in the frets in the normal manner.

I always glue my frets in, mostly to make sure that the slots are sealed up against moisture. I use LMI's Instrument Maker's Glue, thinned a bit with water, in a syringe with a thin needle. I lay a thin bead down in 5 slots, let it settle in for a few minutes, then press in those 5 frets. Repeat down the neck. The LMI glue acts as a lubricant, adds some extra grip, and makes the slot water tight. I let it dry overnight, then trim and level the frets.
Click to expand...
Thank you Bruce!
 
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#247
Gilmourisgod said:
Can you apply a finish like Tru-Oil, or Stewmac Fingerboard oil after fretting? Its nearly as shiny as gloss finish, but since it's wipe on, I would think easier to work around frets. There is always the Ric method of spraying a clear gloss Finish over the frets, which gets partially removed during crowning. How does Fender do it on maple fingerboards?
Click to expand...

Yes, but.... I personally don't like Tru-Oil for fingerboards. Tru-Oil is a thin varnish, which means that it leaves a thin coating on the surface. It's fairly soft, and tends to wear and get grubby quickly. It also takes a long time to fully cure. Yes, it can be cleaned up and repaired by recoating. It ends up being a regular maintenance thing. If I'm doing a clear gloss finish on a fingerboard, I want a hard finish that will last a long time, only needing to be wiped down.

Stew-Mac's Fingerboard Oil is different. It's a thinned down finish whose main purpose is to sink down into the pores of the wood and harden. The residue on the surface gets wiped and buffed off. That's what's commonly called an oil finish, although it's not really accurate. Most modern oil finishes are thinned hardening polyurethanes.

The Stew-Mac oil is wonderful for dark, dense fingerboards like ebony and rosewood. It seals them up and protects them from moisture. I use it on all on my ebony fingerboards. I normally apply it and buff it out before installing the frets, so I can verify that the fingerboard surface is all thoroughly sanded and looking good. After the frets are in, I may apply another coat and buff it off, as a final cleanup. But the Stew-Mac isn't really adding a coating to the surface.

Now, on a maple board, the Stew-Mac oil will seal up the grain. But it doesn't really protect the surface. And maple will stain and get grubby easily, because it's light colored. So, for maple, you really want to put on a hard clear coat.
 
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#248
OK, back from the Tech Shop. It's pretty cool the way the computer updates the screen as the laser renders the cut.

2diobip.jpg


11kghmc.jpg


Note to self - Don't have the laser cutter actually cut the fretboard out.

rlar0l.jpg


It's pretty charred around the edges. It shows a razor thin cut on the screen, but the wood starts to flame and char as it's cutting. The fretboard is now too narrow, and I couldn't run the machine again to make the inlay deep enough as I ran out of time. I'm not sure what I'll do, though I could always glue on a binding after sanding off all the embers. The depth of the inlay cut is an issue, unless I just rout it with the Dremel.

I did pick up some walnut on the way home - The Woodworker's Source was running a sale on walnut this month.

24zd9b8.jpg


That's $30.00 of neck stringers right there, and perhaps some fretboard binding.

I was able to use their Jet bandsaw to start on the neck through blank.

rlw808.jpg


And I'm ready to glue up the neck template for the bolt on. It's still too cold in the shop to spray, but it's suppose to warm up this week.
 
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#249
Bruce Johnson said:
I haven't built any of my own basses with maple fingerboards, but if I did, I would definitely finish and buff out the fingerboard completely before installing the frets. Unless you are set up with a dust-free UV-curing polyester spray booth, the process of finishing the fingerboard is going to require a lot of sanding, recoating, and buffing out. Trying to do that between the frets is crazy.
Click to expand...

I installed the frets on the 4004, then sprayed on a few coats of clear, did the fretwork, and finished spraying.

20iueq8.jpg


I used an eraser as a sanding block while wet sanding the board between the frets. It really wasn't that bad. Of course, I could only go back and forth with the paper, but I thought it came out pretty well. It's not perfect, but I'm happy with it.
 
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#258
mapleglo said:
Made the neck plate and screwed on the neck.

34ox8w3.jpg
Click to expand...

So is that a locking strap peg? If so pointed in like that would prevent engaging/disengaging it if I'm seeing it correctly. And with such a thick neck-plate - I'd want to rout it flush and have the strap peg facing outward. But that's just me. ;)

Also - your (body) edge looks perfect - how did you get it so smooth and the arch so ideal?
 
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#259
Looks great!

Yes, that's the right way to make the neck plate, with the strap button facing forward. It's much more difficult for the strap to pop off. I've built several of them like that, and they've worked well. Yeah, obviously, the edges of the plate get rounded off and smoothed out.

You could rout a shallow pocket into the back of the body to make the neck plate flush. Then, after you do the rounding off of the horns and cutaways, file the edges of the neck plate to match the contour. That would be cool.

When you get it all shaped out, go over it with 400 grit sandpaper in straight line strokes. That will give it a satin brushed finish.
 
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