Not sure I understand. Did you fear the plane would damage the flamed maple?
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Winter Build Off 2023 - Supersymmetry
- Thread starter TFM94
- Start date
Hand planes can easily cause tearout in heavily figured woods. Since the grain is wavy, in some areas you are cutting away from the grain and in other areas you are cutting into the grain. There's some measures you can take to improve it like a super sharp blade, very shallow cuts or a low-angle plane and different sharpening angles, but in this case sanding seemed like the easier and safer option.
The jig is up.
I went to the hardware store and got me a sheet of 6mm acrylic for the circle inlay jig. Before working on the actual bog oak fretboard I wanted to give it a try on a scrap piece of oak. I arranged the inlay so that most of the anchor points of the radius (all except two) are outside of the fretboard. For the two anchors that are inside of the fretboard area I used a second sheet of acrylic with a cutout to provide the anchor points.
One of the 1mm spiral bits immediately broke during the first pass, but the second (and last) one was holding up fine. Since I take shallow cuts (max. 1mm at a time) the slots tend to widen slightly as a result of multiple passes, but that's not really a problem. I have to rout quite deep so that there is still enough depth left after radiusing.
Here's the test inlay rout. It's not perfect, but doesn't look too bad either.The pencil lines are the outline of the fretboard. It now measures 5"x2". You can still see al the center points of the circle jig.
I'm thinking that I could rout out a recess for the fretboard so that it sits flush with the oak board. Then I could use the same anchor points for the radius jig to rout the actual inlay.
Just to check with the inlay experts: It's best to slot the board after filling the inlay with epoxy, right? I'm thinking otherwise the epoxy would seep out through the fret slots...
Happy new year everyone!
I went to the hardware store and got me a sheet of 6mm acrylic for the circle inlay jig. Before working on the actual bog oak fretboard I wanted to give it a try on a scrap piece of oak. I arranged the inlay so that most of the anchor points of the radius (all except two) are outside of the fretboard. For the two anchors that are inside of the fretboard area I used a second sheet of acrylic with a cutout to provide the anchor points.
One of the 1mm spiral bits immediately broke during the first pass, but the second (and last) one was holding up fine. Since I take shallow cuts (max. 1mm at a time) the slots tend to widen slightly as a result of multiple passes, but that's not really a problem. I have to rout quite deep so that there is still enough depth left after radiusing.
Here's the test inlay rout. It's not perfect, but doesn't look too bad either.The pencil lines are the outline of the fretboard. It now measures 5"x2". You can still see al the center points of the circle jig.
I'm thinking that I could rout out a recess for the fretboard so that it sits flush with the oak board. Then I could use the same anchor points for the radius jig to rout the actual inlay.
Just to check with the inlay experts: It's best to slot the board after filling the inlay with epoxy, right? I'm thinking otherwise the epoxy would seep out through the fret slots...
Happy new year everyone!
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Looks great!
Yes, definitely. I did the last one I did on a pre-slotted board and had to fill the fret slots before pouring the epoxy to keep the majority of it out of the slots. Starting with an un-slotted board would definitely be better.
Is the center dot on a fret line or is that line just a mark for where you were centering it?
Yes. Hand sawing fret slots through epoxy is no big deal. It's about the same hardness as the wood. Just stop and brush the epoxy dust out of the teeth now and then, to keep it from clogging.
Reminder: Brush a single light coat of some kind of clear finish in the routed slots and let it cure before pouring in the epoxy. That will make the edges crisper and less fuzzy. Fuzzy inlays aren't as appealing.
By the way, you can make up an arc-cutting router base setup that doesn't need holes drilled into the wood. Same router base as you've made, but add a sheet of the plexi underneath it, which is taped or clamped down to the wood. That sheet has the holes for the pin. The router is spaced up by the thickness of the sheet and cuts down through it.
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That's just a pencil mark for the dot, it is going to be centered between the 11th and 12th fret, basically where a normal 12th fret inlay would go.
Yes, I've been thinking about sealing the inlay routs so that the epoxy doesn't seep into the pores. What finish do you recommend? I have some birchwood casey sanding sealer, would that work? tru oil? lacquer?
I used that technique for two of the tighter curves, it worked just fine. That's what the second sheet of acrylic in the top right picture is for!
Finnish post is pretty slow.
I found out the hard way that the bog oak fretboard is quite a bit harder than the oak piece I've been practicing with. I broke my last 1mm router bit while routing one of the arcs of the inlay. I couldn't find them locally, so I ordered new ones online last weekend. They're not here yet and tomorrow is a holiday, so the inlay will have to wait until next week. I have the pigment and epoxy ready to go.
While I'm waiting I've been working out some more design and structural details. For the modern style of the guitar I have decided to include some carbon fiber as a pickguard, jackplate, and truss rod cover. I kept the pickguard rather small because I don't want to cover too much of the flamed maple top. Here's my current design:
That rectangle extending into the body is the neck tenon, not the fretboard. It will be hidden by the top. The line between the two cutaways marks the end of the fretboard. The shape at the tail end of the body is a recess for headless tuner access. Perhaps I will include some carbon fiber there, too. Not sure yet.
I found out the hard way that the bog oak fretboard is quite a bit harder than the oak piece I've been practicing with. I broke my last 1mm router bit while routing one of the arcs of the inlay. I couldn't find them locally, so I ordered new ones online last weekend. They're not here yet and tomorrow is a holiday, so the inlay will have to wait until next week. I have the pigment and epoxy ready to go.
While I'm waiting I've been working out some more design and structural details. For the modern style of the guitar I have decided to include some carbon fiber as a pickguard, jackplate, and truss rod cover. I kept the pickguard rather small because I don't want to cover too much of the flamed maple top. Here's my current design:
That rectangle extending into the body is the neck tenon, not the fretboard. It will be hidden by the top. The line between the two cutaways marks the end of the fretboard. The shape at the tail end of the body is a recess for headless tuner access. Perhaps I will include some carbon fiber there, too. Not sure yet.
I'm not very carbon fiber minded, but somehow I really like this idea.
Emergency question for the epoxy people:
I'm in the process of filling the inlay, so I mixed up some clear casting epoxy resin and stirred in some luminous pigment. If I leave the mixture alone for 5 minutes or more, the pigment settles to the bottom and a clear epoxy layer forms on top. Is this normal? Can I fill the inlay with that? Wouldn't it all accumulate at the bottom of the inlay rout with the top being only clear epoxy? Then I could see the sidewalls of the rout, that doesn't seem very appealing.
Any advice is appreciated.
I use the epoxy and pigment from the same company:
Pigment: Luminescent powder GreenBlue 40g - Phosphorescent Pigments
Resin: Epoxy casting resin set - 1 kg resin + 0.5 kg hardener
They have a calculator on the website where I calculated that I need 18-22 g of pigment for 20g of epoxy. Is this a typical ratio?
I'm in the process of filling the inlay, so I mixed up some clear casting epoxy resin and stirred in some luminous pigment. If I leave the mixture alone for 5 minutes or more, the pigment settles to the bottom and a clear epoxy layer forms on top. Is this normal? Can I fill the inlay with that? Wouldn't it all accumulate at the bottom of the inlay rout with the top being only clear epoxy? Then I could see the sidewalls of the rout, that doesn't seem very appealing.
Any advice is appreciated.
I use the epoxy and pigment from the same company:
Pigment: Luminescent powder GreenBlue 40g - Phosphorescent Pigments
Resin: Epoxy casting resin set - 1 kg resin + 0.5 kg hardener
They have a calculator on the website where I calculated that I need 18-22 g of pigment for 20g of epoxy. Is this a typical ratio?
Here's a pic of the epoxy. I'm still undecided wether I should pour the inlay or not. It has a long open time of 2-4h, so I don't need to panic just yet. The layer at the bottom is mostly just pigment and has a thick oobleck kind of consistence. It takes about 30s of vigorous stirring to get a smooth mixture again.
Edit: tagging @lbridenstine, @MPU and @Bruce Johnson.
Edit: tagging @lbridenstine, @MPU and @Bruce Johnson.
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Unless the materials are significantly expensive I would use this as a test batch rather than actually filling your inlay. I did a test with very fine pearl powder mixed into epoxy a few months back and it seemed to want to separate also. I re-mixed it after letting the epoxy cure for several hours until it was very thick, barely self levelling, and then poured it, and it stayed mixed until it hardened. YMMV, but good luck!
I've never had the separation issue with what I've used. Did it end up being usable after some time? I didn't get a notification about being tagged, so didn't see this until now.
I always wondered if people got notified if tagged in an edit. Guess I know now!
1:1 seems high, and their own calculator doesn't agree with this statement earlier on the page:
Mixing ratio
We recommend a ratio of 1:2, i.e. 1 part pigment to 2 parts binder/carrier agent
We recommend a ratio of 1:2, i.e. 1 part pigment to 2 parts binder/carrier agent
Maybe they assume 1:1 epoxy and hardener in their calculator (ex: 100 ml epoxy, 100 ml hardener, 100 g powder)?
Alright, I owe you an update. First of all, thanks for all the helpful comments and tips.
I called lumentics.com today. The owner picked up the phone himself and gave some really helpful tips. He said that waiting until the epoxy gets thicker is the correct way to go with these pigments. According to him, a wide range of mixing ratios is possible with 1:1 is on the higher end, but perfectly fine.
The epoxy is a super slow setting casting resin (3 days until non-sticky, 8 days until sanding/polishing), so it took about 15h to get to a thick honey consistency. The pigments don't settle as much anymore, but of course I have to be careful about air bubbles now. I filled the inlay an hour ago and now I'm checking for bubbles every few minutes, popping them with a needle or flame as they appear.
Some progress pics, chronologically:
After routing the inlay with the circle cutting jig. The alignment of the arcs to the center hole is much better than on the test rout I made last week. I also added one more arc to the design.
And after sealing and filling the inlay. Just for fun also a photo in the dark.
Bottom line: The info on the manufacturer website is confusing, but I think this is ok now. We'll see if any inclusions show up when radiusing the board. For now I'm cautiously optimistic.
P.S. the failed tag/notification is probably because of it being an edit. I learn something new every day...
I called lumentics.com today. The owner picked up the phone himself and gave some really helpful tips. He said that waiting until the epoxy gets thicker is the correct way to go with these pigments. According to him, a wide range of mixing ratios is possible with 1:1 is on the higher end, but perfectly fine.
The epoxy is a super slow setting casting resin (3 days until non-sticky, 8 days until sanding/polishing), so it took about 15h to get to a thick honey consistency. The pigments don't settle as much anymore, but of course I have to be careful about air bubbles now. I filled the inlay an hour ago and now I'm checking for bubbles every few minutes, popping them with a needle or flame as they appear.
Some progress pics, chronologically:
After routing the inlay with the circle cutting jig. The alignment of the arcs to the center hole is much better than on the test rout I made last week. I also added one more arc to the design.
And after sealing and filling the inlay. Just for fun also a photo in the dark.
Bottom line: The info on the manufacturer website is confusing, but I think this is ok now. We'll see if any inclusions show up when radiusing the board. For now I'm cautiously optimistic.
P.S. the failed tag/notification is probably because of it being an edit. I learn something new every day...
Dude... you could grainfill the body with it!
