Workshop Tools - the essentials???

[Bruce Johnson]

I agree with Hopkins about the table saw. One of those little portable contractor's saws is useful around the shop for cutting pieces of plywood, but I don't think you'll find much use for it in building instruments. It's not powerful enough or stable enough for ripping thick boards.

My current table saw is a Grizzly cabinet saw, 10", 3 HP. I fitted it with a Biesemeyer fence and an HTC overarm guard. It's a good saw, and it's served me well for 22 years. But it's still marginal for ripping 8/4 hard maple. Which I do a lot of.

In my constant quest to upgrade my nice newer machines to really cool older machines, last year I acquired a monster table saw. It's a 1938 Baxter Whitney Model 77, quite a rare old machine. It has a 12" blade on it now, but will take up to a 16" blade. It weighs 2200 lbs. The motor is direct drive, 4 HP (a conservative rating, I'm sure) and runs on 440 3 phase. It will rip maple all day. I remember watching it work and drooling over it about 10 years ago in a friend of mine's shop. He ran into bad times and lost his shop, put the saw in storage for a few years, and finally had to sell it. Right now I have it parked in a spare corner here in the Underground Lab, but sometime soon I'll be moving it into my shop and getting it set up. My trusty Grizzly will be moving down the hall to my buddy John's shop.

About dust collection ducting, yes the 4" hose can get expensive. I did most of my ducting with 4" PVC pipe and fittings, only using the hose for the short connections to the machines. The plastic pipe is cheaper and flows air better. For larger size ducts, use standard galvanized sheet metal ductwork.

 

[Richie Se7en]

Absolutely, Bruce... one can get quite creative running dust collection - like homemade blast gates - among other things. I remember pricing a set of 4 of those long Bessey clamps, then realizing how much length of 3/4" pipe I could buy for the price of one Bessey.

 

[mapleglo]

I really don't want to disagree with the people doing this a lot longer than I have, but here's my table saw:

It can easily cut through 6/4 maple and walnut, and had no problem with 8/4 alder. I've cut 1/4" neck laminates from 6/4 maple and walnut with it, body halves, and find it extremely useful for making plywood templates. When I cut body halves, the fine tooth saw blade barely leaves any marks, which I can sand smooth in a few minutes, perfect for glue ups. I seem to remember getting it for just over $200 on sale at Home Depot. I think of it as money well spent. Your milage may vary.

 

[PDX Rich]

I really don't want to disagree with the people doing this a lot longer than I have, but here's my table saw:

It can easily cut through 6/4 maple and walnut, and had no problem with 8/4 alder. I've cut 1/4" neck laminates from 6/4 maple and walnut with it, body halves, and find it extremely useful for making plywood templates. When I cut body halves, the fine tooth saw blade barely leaves any marks, which I can sand smooth in a few minutes, perfect for glue ups. I seem to remember getting it for just over $200 on sale at Home Depot. I think of it as money well spent. Your milage may vary.

I have the same saw. With a glue line rip blade, it does a dandy of a job for almost glue ready joints. As long as I break down sheet goods prior to using the table saw on them, it works well in that regard. Using my bench as outfeed and a pair of rollers as infeed, I feel pretty good about the safety aspect. The best thing to do with this and other job site saws is to build a table around the whole unit to mimic the surface area you get with a full blown cabinet saw.

 

[BassHappy]

I would still skip the little table saw and hold out for at least a contractor, if not a cabinet or hybrid saw. Something stationary you can build an in and out feed table off of. As far as your dust collection goes, get the 2HP one that Harbor Freight sells. Its a damn good machine and pulls alot of volume, with a 20% off coupon you will get it for about the same price without having to have it shipped.

Then, get ready for the extreme sticker shock of having to buy 4" dust collection hose

Hey Hopkins and Bruce....

I really do appreciate your considered opinion - absolutely. Problem is - I am working side by side with a master craftsman/carpenter with 35 years of experience and he also works a couple of days a week at a saw mill. He even built a chair for the Pope. He uses the Bosch table saw weekly and sometimes daily and loves it. He knows exactly what I need to do, as he has lived it - and he recommends it unconditionally - and since he has been the one teaching me everything I know, I trust him - and I am going with it.

If he had even the slightest hesitation about it, he would tell me. He doesn't. The only drawback he has is that it is probably one of the loudest table saws he has ever used, and re-iterated that ear protection is more than essential. Nothing is enclosed and that sucker screams.

I don't need a 4" dust collection hose, as the Bosch has it's own dust collection bag which attaches to the 4" port. Please reference above. It's 13 bucks and can be re-used or not.....

 

[BassHappy]

I really don't want to disagree with the people doing this a lot longer than I have, but here's my table saw:

It can easily cut through 6/4 maple and walnut, and had no problem with 8/4 alder. I've cut 1/4" neck laminates from 6/4 maple and walnut with it, body halves, and find it extremely useful for making plywood templates. When I cut body halves, the fine tooth saw blade barely leaves any marks, which I can sand smooth in a few minutes, perfect for glue ups. I seem to remember getting it for just over $200 on sale at Home Depot. I think of it as money well spent. Your milage may vary.

Hey 'glo

Thanks for weighing in. Glad too hear another voice of reason on this. Glenn was really funny a couple of weeks ago when I told him I was getting a lot of resistance here about the Bosch table saw. He was more or less in disbelief to be honest. He loves that saw and it has been pretty much trouble free in his experience. He said hey - a 10" saw is a 10" saw. I was giving him a shot to change his mind and recommend something else and he said - "One of the best tools I ever bought. Period." YMMV of course.....

Yes, I am naive and a newbie, but the table saw seems to me to be the least of my worries...

Besides, if I am doing serious millwork and ripping "thick boards' as Bruce mentions - I will go to their shop and let them lend a hand. I am a part timer over here - please don't forget....

 

[Hopkins]

Hey Hopkins

I really do appreciate your considered opinion - absolutely. Problem is - I am working side by side with a master craftsman/carpenter with 35 years of experience and he also works a couple of days a week at a saw mill. He even built a chair for the Pope. He uses the Bosch table saw weekly and sometimes daily and loves it. He knows exactly what I need to do, as he has lived it - and he recommends it unconditionally - and since he has been the one teaching me everything I know, I trust him - and I am going with it.

If he had even the slightest hesitation about it, he would tell me. He doesn't. The only drawback he has is that it is probably one of the loudest table saws he has ever used, and re-iterated that ear protection is more than essential. I don't need a 4" dust collection hose, as the Bosch has it's own dust collection bag which attaches to the 4" port. Please reference above. It's 13 bucks and can be re-used or not.....

I have a hybrid saw myself, I really only use it for ripping long boards or sheet goods. I guess I couldn't imagine trying to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood on that small of a saw. I just simply do not use the table saw for building guitars at all, so unless you are setting up to do other projects (which you most likely will) its just not that necessary in my opinion.

You can see here why a larger saw would be a major advantage for sheet goods. I am actually planning on upgrading my saw to something newer with a better fence and splitter.

 

[BassHappy]

I have a hybrid saw myself, I really only use it for ripping long boards or sheet goods. I guess I couldn't imagine trying to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood on that small of a saw. I just simply do not use the table saw for building guitars at all, so unless you are setting up to do other projects (which you most likely will) its just not that necessary in my opinion.

Don't see why you call it a "hybrid" saw? It's a 10" table saw. What is hybrid about it?

Trying to understand. The other thing Glenn mentioned is that: a 10" table saw is a 10" table saw - this one just happens to be portable....

I mean what am I cutting here? I know, I am cutting 3" thick billets in the worst case...

I am with Glenn and 'glo on this one...

And no, have no reason to rip plywood.

 

[Hopkins]

Don't see why you call it a "hybrid" saw. It isn't. It's a 10" table saw. What is hybrid about it?

Trying to understand. The other thing Glenn mention is that: a 10" table saw is a 10" table saw - this one just happens to be portable....

I mean what am I cutting here? I know, I am cutting 4" thick billets in the worst case...

I am with Glenn and 'glo on this one...

Hybrid saws are in between a cabinet saw and a contractors saw. They run on 110v and use a lighter trunnion which is mounted to the table like a contractor saw, yet they have a larger table and are stationary saws like a cabinet saw.

 

[BassHappy]

Hybrid saws are in between a cabinet saw and a contractors saw. They run on 110v and use a lighter trunnion which is mounted to the table like a contractor saw, yet they have a larger table and are stationary saws like a cabinet saw.

Aha!

Thanks, and apparently they don't do a good job on big sheets of plywood?

Really, not trying to be an ass, just don't get what the big deal is....

Not doing anything heavy duty over here and probably never will...

Most of you folks are building decks, and refurbishing basements and remodeling bathrooms at times. None of that is in the cards here, I would never be able to squeeze in the time.

I am table sawing guitar bodies to bookmatch and if I get really lucky, maybe a neck blank some day...

 

[Hopkins]

Aha!

Thanks, and apparently they don't do a good job on big sheets of plywood?

Really, not trying to be an ass, just don't get what the big deal is....

Its the table size, a stationary saw has a wide enough table to support a 4 foot sheet of plywood, and are stationary so out feet tables can be built around them. I am sure that Bosch table saw is one of the best jobsite saws on the market. But I just prefer a stationary saw in my shop. It also doubles as a really nice work bench.

 

[BassHappy]

Its the table size, a stationary saw has a wide enough table to support a 4 foot sheet of plywood, and are stationary so out feet tables can be built around them. I am sure that Bosch table saw is one of the best jobsite saws on the market. But I just prefer a stationary saw in my shop. It also doubles as a really nice work bench.

Hey Hopkins

Peace...

I get it now, so it's the size of the table that is problematic. I can see where that could be a problem.

I don't think Glenn ever considered that I would be doing anything more than what we had already done together...

It's all small lumber.

 

[BassHappy]

I have a hybrid saw myself, I really only use it for ripping long boards or sheet goods. I guess I couldn't imagine trying to cut a 4x8 sheet of plywood on that small of a saw. I just simply do not use the table saw for building guitars at all, so unless you are setting up to do other projects (which you most likely will) its just not that necessary in my opinion.

You can see here why a larger saw would be a major advantage for sheet goods. I am actually planning on upgrading my saw to something newer with a better fence and splitter.

Nice bench! And I can see where the extension might be really key for some things.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Trying to understand. The other thing Glenn mentioned is that: a 10" table saw is a 10" table saw

NOT true. A 10" direct drive cannot cut nearly as deep (or high, if you will) as a 10" belt drive - the motor gets in the way of raising the blade through the table. Between belt-drive saws, there is definitely a difference between a contractor's and a full-on cabinet, but it's kinda like the difference between craftsman sockets and snap-on sockets - Large X price increase for much smaller fractional x quality increase. And the associated motor horsepower is again different between all three, in an increasing manner, which can matter for some jobs.

 

[mapleglo]

Yes, it's true that the small table saw can't really handle a 4x8 sheet of plywood. But as a relative newby in building, I used the small table saw for every single build so far. While I may not be cutting the actual wood for the guitar, I'm definitely making a pickup rout template, or miter box fret saw, or a mockup, or some other router jig, or something. In another year or two, I may not be using it as often, but I don't know how I could have completed the 10 or so builds I've done so far without it.

 

[BassHappy]

Yes, it's true that the small table saw can't really handle a 4x8 sheet of plywood. But as a relative newby in building, I used the small table saw for every single build so far. While I may not be cutting the actual wood for the guitar, I'm definitely making a pickup rout template, or miter box fret saw, or a mockup, or some other router jig, or something. In another year or two, I may not be using it as often, but I don't know how I could have completed the 10 or so builds I've done so far without it.

Hey 'glo

I hear you!

For those who care about such things - and i know not everyone does - the Bosch portables just scored #5 and #9 of "The 10 Best Table Saws". It's "The 10 Best Table Saws" not just portables.

Is that your DeWalt 'glo at number 6 or 8? If so, you beat the Bosch 1301 on my wishlist!

It should be noted that the Grizzly G0501 at #1 has been discontinued and is no longer available.

 

[BassHappy]

Hybrid saws are in between a cabinet saw and a contractors saw. They run on 110v and use a lighter trunnion which is mounted to the table like a contractor saw, yet they have a larger table and are stationary saws like a cabinet saw.

Found One:

The Bosch 1301 has a 4HP motor while the Grizzly above has a 2HP motor.

Walmart Online has one factory reconditioned at $299 with a 60 day return policy. Wonder if it is worth the extra $50 to buy it new for the one year warranty?

 

[Hopkins]

Hey 'glo

I hear you!

For those who care about such things - and i know not everyone does - the Bosch portables just scored #5 and #9 of "The 10 Best Table Saws". It's "The 10 Best Table Saws" not just portables.

View attachment 873904

Is that your DeWalt 'glo at number 6 or 8? If so, you beat the Bosch 1301 on my wishlist!

It should be noted that the Grizzly G0501 at #1 has been discontinued and is no longer available.

View attachment 873906

No Saw Stop on that list? I call shenanigans, if I hit the lottery today, I would own a Saw Stop table saw tomorrow.

 

[BassHappy]

No Saw Stop on that list? I call shenanigans, if I hit the lottery today, I would own a Saw Stop table saw tomorrow.

Hey Hopkins

I think it's much more of a popularity contest in that list - not necessarily a quality contest.

I can always increase the rippage on the Bosch to 27". If I need to, I can add this later:

 

[Hopkins]

Hey Hopkins

I think it's much more of a popularity contest in that list - not necessarily a quality contest.

I can always increase the rippage on the Bosch to 27". If I need to, I can add this later:

View attachment 873934

You could almost buy a stationary table saw for the price of that stand, yikes. Then again, you could always build a work bench that has a cut out the saw can fit into as well.