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Workshop Tools - the essentials???

Hey Brad

I appreciate the sentiment, I really do....

The only potential individual investments on my wish list over $200 bucks would be the band saw, drill press and the table saw - and they are all under $425. I suppose if I were retired and had the intention of using this equipment full time - shopping around Craigslist would be fun and make sense. Time is at a premium these days and I seriously doubt if I would ever log enough usage on any of these pieces to have much in the way of equipment breakdowns, especially if I stay with Bosch. Of course, much stranger things have happened and no one is immune to equipment failure. That is what warranties are for. I do realize, even MMMV.

I also don't have access to a truck or helpers to transport any serious equipment - so that additional expense is also a consideration. Remember, I am in New York. Everyone gets a premium price here - almost by design. Free shipping and 2-5 year warranties are very appealing. The quickest and shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line.
Of course, that makes perfect sense.

Assuming that, one final thought...my table saw is a BEAST, but the seller dropped it off.

Still, if new is the direction you are heading, take a look around www.grizzly.com.

They cater to the moderate through extremely serious crowd, and offer many "generic" versions of tools you may see offered under other brands.

Generally, choosing the Grizzly brand will get you the most bang for the buck.

They also have some fun stuff for guitar.
 
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Of course, that makes perfect sense.

Assuming that, one final thought...my table saw is a BEAST, but the seller dropped it off.

Still, if new is the direction you are heading, take a look around www.grizzly.com.

They cater to the moderate through extremely serious crowd, and offer many "generic" versions of tools you may see offered under other brands.

Generally, choosing the Grizzly brand will get you the most bang for the buck.

They also have some fun stuff for guitar.

Good Advice Brad

That is the beauty of this place - nothing is written in store and these are exactly the type of recommendations I am looking for. Will check out their stuff for sure and for certain with a hearty thanks!
 
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Well Brad, you've done it again. Man that Grizzly site is a magical mystery tour! Love it, and it's so cool that the owner is a guitar builder. Some of those freaking machines are over 200 lbs! Talk about heavy duty. They have a lot of Grizzly stuff at the shop and I am heading over there in a while.

So, my wish list has drastically changed - in most instances I found reasonably comparable prices from what I was originally thinking. The drill press and band saw were surprisingly affordable, the table saw not so much. With the little amount of millwork I am doing the Bosch portable table saw should be fine. So if I HAVE to knock off a few hundred bucks that is the place to do it.

They are having a few sales right now, and the shipping is a whopping $464 if I were to get my wish list from them. Of course, on a package deal they may be willing to negotiate a bit on the shipping costs and the price of the equipment too. I like the idea of going with one manufacturer, it gives you more pull if you have a problem . I also added a dust collector, a joiner and a planer, so I am up to around $3k depending on the shipping:

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ADDED TO THE WISHLIST:

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Planer.png


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I have a deal on a credit card with interest free financing for a couple of years. It looks like they have most everything in the way of clamps, a vice, Forstner and Router bits, etc. I should be able to make a sweetheart deal and get rid of a lot of the shipping costs hopefully....
 
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Yes, I expect that Grizzly will be happy to work with you on an order like that.

I'm biased towards the Porter Cable 690 routers, if only because they seem to be the "industry standard".

You can buy virtually any accessory that fits the 690 hole pattern.

Be sure to get BOTH a fixed and plunger base.

The fixed base will live in your table, and the plunger will be used for pickup routs, neck pockets, etc.
 
Yes, I expect that Grizzly will be happy to work with you on an order like that.

I'm biased towards the Porter Cable 690 routers, if only because they seem to be the "industry standard".

You can buy virtually any accessory that fits the 690 hole pattern.

Be sure to get BOTH a fixed and plunger base.

The fixed base will live in your table, and the plunger will be used for pickup routs, neck pockets, etc.

Hey Brad

So yeah, I just got back from the shop - got a lot of crazy detail work done. We sculpted the back of one of the bodies - really rounded off a sort of sharp edge with a file. We also made some special rosewood bridge plates to use underneath an ETS piezo bridge and tailpiece - and swapped out the decorative bridge screws on all 5. We did some bridge work on the two string throughs. The shop guys are thrilled that I am thinking of setting up my own little shop and going with Grizzly - and they have vowed to help me set up the shop and maintain it too. Glenn owns and uses the Bosch portable table saw all the time and he says it is fine for what I need to do. He said it's really loud, but the cool thing is - everything I picked out except the Grizzly table saw - works on a standard outlet. If I switch back to the Bosch table saw I don't need any electrician visits. So not only do I save $300+ on the table saw I save the electrician's bill as well. They gave me an extra Grizzly catalog they had and pointed me to the "guitar building" section. We went through everything I picked out preliminarily - and they think I am on the right track. They are going to think about it and make some recommendations. They also advised against getting "sets" of anything. They said - buy a Forstner bit as you need one, buy a router bit as you need one, buy your hand tools as you need them. Oh, and yes the Bosch router has a fixed and plunger base. They have a several of the Harbor Freight benches, and like they said - for the $130 they paid you can barely get the wood for that price. They also said exactly what Lisa said - drawers don't open all the way and collect sawdust. They like their benches to have cabinet doors on the bottom section with shelves or drawers to keep your tools in.

He also said that Harbor Freight has an annual sale on clamps where they are all around 1/2 price. They always load up on them during that sale.

So I am anxious to get this barn deal done and get on the phone to Grizzly and see if I can talk them into a deal. Thanks for all the input, Brad - I really appreciate it.
 
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No problem @BassHappy!

I'm excited for you...it looks like you've got the bug!

Hey Brad

When I was talking to my shop guys Glenn and Ernie, they mentioned that there was a Grizzly warehouse in Muncy, PA and that it wasn't too far. They have access to a truck and offered to take a ride down there with me - and pick up all the stuff in person and save the shipping fees. But I found out that they closed the Muncy, PA location in favor of the one in Missouri:

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I bet that was one heck of a sale!

I decided to definitely go with the Bosch table saw regardless of the advice on here to the contrary. Glenn has one and uses it all the time on job sites and he swears by it. He said it is PLENTY of saw for what I am doing. So that saves $300 bucks plus - and also saves an electrician's visit. Nothing is 220v now - my wishlist is entirely 110v. So, I swapped out the table saw for the Bosch and added the Grizzly scroll saw. We used the scroll saw for the F holes on these and it's not expensive at $146 bucks. I upgraded to the ultimate bandsaw and decided to go with the spindle sander with the bigger table. While I am still a newbie, I have used each and every machine on the list building these prototype bodies - so I at least have familiarity with them:

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It's in the neighborhood of $3K now, depending on any discounts and negotiating with the shipping costs which are in the $400 - $500 range. Might seem like a lot of money, but I would have thought that it would have been upwards of $10K to get all of this machinery until I priced it out. Of course, I still need things like bits, rasps, sandpapers, files, clamps and other supplies. But I think this would give me a great start! I think I can get away with one dust collector with a key fob and group the machines together and manually connect the hose as I switch machines - they all have the 2.5" port. I will also buy five tool stands which we will mount the table top gear on. This ShopFox is $49 bucks at Grizzly plus shipping - but I can get it at Amazon for $45.48 with free shipping. The shop guys will be helping me mount all the tools, so we will see what we need as far as specific stands and/or benches when the time comes. May have to mix it up with different size table tops and different heights. What fun!

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Comment if you see fit!
 
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Hey Rick;

I meant to get back with a couple of comments from my experience:

First, I have all good things to say about Grizzly. I bought seven (?) woodworking machines from them back in the mid-1990's. They've all served me well for 20 years, and were well worth the money. Several I've modified to customize them for my purposes. A few have had electrical problems, with failed switches. In my experience, the Grizzly machines are sturdy and well built mechanically. I understand that they've improved their electrical switches and wiring over the years.

One machine that you left off your list, which I would put up near the top of your priority list, just behind the bandsaw and the drill press:

You need an Edge Sander, either the G1140 or the G1531. Mine is an earlier G1531, which I've modified quite a bit. That is the single most frequently used machine in my shop. I probably use it an average of 20 times a day. I think every Luthier I know has one, and can't live without it. It's the all-purpose woodworking sander, much handier than the G0547 on your list.

Two other Grizzly sanders that I highly recommend, for both woodworking and metalworking:

The G1276 6" x 48" Combo sander. This is the slower 1725 rpm combo belt/disk sander. It's very heavy duty, and smooth running. I use mine about 10 times a day.

The G1015 Knife Belt Sander. Another machine that I use many times every day. More for metalworking than woodworking, but very useful. The open spindle can take a pneumatic sanding drum, buffing wheels, etc.

A few other comments on your list:

My spindle sander is a Ryobi, which has been a surprising workhorse. The Grizzly G0538 is a similar machine, and well worth the money.

The G0555 bandsaw, G7946 Drill Press, G0725 Jointer and G0790 Planer are good choices, worth the money.

I'd forget the G0436 Scroll Saw. I have two nice similar Scroll Saws, a Delta and a Ryobi and they are basically useless. I never use them.

The Bosch router is a good choice. I personally have mostly Porter-Cable routers, but almost anything from Bosch is a good sturdy tool.

Likewise the Bosch angle grinder is a good tool that you'll use a lot. Forget the Galahad discs. They look good on paper, but I've found that they are too coarse cutting and clog up too easily. Normal 60 grit sanding discs on the angle grinder work great.

For the orbital sander, you definitely want to get one that's variable speed. I have a Milwaukee 6021-21 (about $80 at Home Depot) and it's great. Very smooth running and adjustable. I like it better than my Porter-Cable orbital sander. The Bosch is probably good, but get the variable speed model. I rarely use mine anywhere above 3 0r 4 on the speed dial. Get the hook & loop pad for it. It's really nice to be able to quickly switch disk grits, without harming the disks. With the PSA (pressure adhesive) disks, you'll waste a lot of them.

I hope this helps!
 
Hey Rick;

I meant to get back with a couple of comments from my experience:

First, I have all good things to say about Grizzly. I bought seven (?) woodworking machines from them back in the mid-1990's. They've all served me well for 20 years, and were well worth the money. Several I've modified to customize them for my purposes. A few have had electrical problems, with failed switches. In my experience, the Grizzly machines are sturdy and well built mechanically. I understand that they've improved their electrical switches and wiring over the years.

One machine that you left off your list, which I would put up near the top of your priority list, just behind the bandsaw and the drill press:

You need an Edge Sander, either the G1140 or the G1531. Mine is an earlier G1531, which I've modified quite a bit. That is the single most frequently used machine in my shop. I probably use it an average of 20 times a day. I think every Luthier I know has one, and can't live without it. It's the all-purpose woodworking sander, much handier than the G0547 on your list.

Two other Grizzly sanders that I highly recommend, for both woodworking and metalworking:

The G1276 6" x 48" Combo sander. This is the slower 1725 rpm combo belt/disk sander. It's very heavy duty, and smooth running. I use mine about 10 times a day.

The G1015 Knife Belt Sander. Another machine that I use many times every day. More for metalworking than woodworking, but very useful. The open spindle can take a pneumatic sanding drum, buffing wheels, etc.

A few other comments on your list:

My spindle sander is a Ryobi, which has been a surprising workhorse. The Grizzly G0538 is a similar machine, and well worth the money.

The G0555 bandsaw, G7946 Drill Press, G0725 Jointer and G0790 Planer are good choices, worth the money.

I'd forget the G0436 Scroll Saw. I have two nice similar Scroll Saws, a Delta and a Ryobi and they are basically useless. I never use them.

The Bosch router is a good choice. I personally have mostly Porter-Cable routers, but almost anything from Bosch is a good sturdy tool.

Likewise the Bosch angle grinder is a good tool that you'll use a lot. Forget the Galahad discs. They look good on paper, but I've found that they are too coarse cutting and clog up too easily. Normal 60 grit sanding discs on the angle grinder work great.

For the orbital sander, you definitely want to get one that's variable speed. I have a Milwaukee 6021-21 (about $80 at Home Depot) and it's great. Very smooth running and adjustable. I like it better than my Porter-Cable orbital sander. The Bosch is probably good, but get the variable speed model. I rarely use mine anywhere above 3 0r 4 on the speed dial. Get the hook & loop pad for it. It's really nice to be able to quickly switch disk grits, without harming the disks. With the PSA (pressure adhesive) disks, you'll waste a lot of them.

I hope this helps!

Hey Bruce

This helps a lot, manohman! Exactly the kind of considered feedback I was looking for! Thanks so much for taking the time, I really appreciate it. I will research everything that you mention here, for sure. Nice to hear about the switches being better now on the Grizzly stuff. My shop guys made the exact same comment.

We used the scroll saw at the shop I am working in to cut the "F" holes and it worked like a charm. I much prefer it to trying to cut them by hand. I don't know of any other machine or tool that would do such a quick and precise job on those, do you? They turned out really nice and that is the only reason that I have the scroll saw in the budget. We just had to clean them up with a couple of files and a little sandpaper and they were really perfect.

The edge sanders look a little pricey but I can see how handy they would be. When we were doing the edge work on the bodies in the shop, we used the combo and spindle sanders a lot - and for our purposes they worked really well. We didn't run into a situation on these bodies where we needed a bigger belt area - but I can see how valuable it would be. When I can ratchet it into the budget I should pick one up. As it stands right now, I can get the spindle and combo sanders for less than half the price of the edge sander and my budget is pretty tapped out.

I would never forego the Galahad grinding blade - man it was incredible, it was the way we carved and shaped all of the bodies. I was very nervous when Glenn pulled it out and fired it up. The blade appears very aggressive. More than one person on this forum told me that tool was a total loser, too aggressive, and inappropriate for woodworking. However, it never got clogged and I found it to be perfect for what needed to be done. They taught me how to use it on some scraps but I wasn't confident enough to do the body shaping yet myself. It's one of the things I can't wait to get into. When I asked Jens Ritter if he had ever considered CNC for his body shapes, he laughed and said - "No way, shaping the bodies is the fun part". Glenn uses it every day to carve and shape wood. I told him about the comments on the forum and he just grinned and said - "A lot of tools are deemed inappropriate until you learn how to use them properly". And use it he did! There is very radical shaping and lots of carving involved and that grinder just worked perfectly - both on the maple and on the mahogany. It was surprisingly not too aggressive at all - and saved us lots of time. It you use it in broad strokes it takes off surprisingly little material. He did the radical carving work on all five bodies with just the Galahad disc and then I helped by going over it with the orbital sander. They look awesome, I would post a pic - but I can't reveal them yet.

I also love the wooden handles on the Bosch router, everything else being pretty equal - that makes it a winner for me. Anytime my hands can be directly in touch with wood, I prefer it. Variable speed on the orbital sander is a great suggestion. From what I have read the Bosch orbitals have better vibration control than some other brands. This upgrade won't break the bank so I will follow your advice on this and switch to this one:

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I also already picked up a pneumatic 2" orbital sander and that was a life saver for smoothing out the inside of the clamshells. It uses the hook and loop pads too, so you can swap sandpaper easily. It's great for delicate work. However, I will need an air compressor for it, and picking out a compressor is a bit overwhelming. I can see how mapleglo was having so many problems. Finish work for me at this point is a pipe dream, I have far too much to learn and concentrate on before I ever get to that. But if I buy a compressor, it would be nice if it were good enough to use with a paint gun later on. I understand that the sanders really use a lot of air power, so I can't go light duty. If you have an air compressor recommendation, I am all ears. I will also need to get a good buffing wheel at that point, but the G1015 knife sander for now seems like a luxury for me at that price.

You have a great point on the combo sander upgrade, but again, the budget is maxed out and I have used the smaller one on my list with great satisfaction. Maybe later I can afford to sell it and move up a notch. By the way - building necks is (gulp) also not in the cards right now either. Your build diaries on the two necks you made for me caused me to go running for the hills - at least for now.

Thanks again Bruce, much appreciated!
 
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One thing that no one has mentioned - a 36" bar stool with a padded seat. You know, for old folk like me, standing for hours at a time while wet sanding can really take a toll on your back and feet. I wish I had bought one when they were on sale at Guitar Center. They have them at the wood store as well.
 
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I had a Grizzly G0538 spindle sander several years back when building out of my condo garage. it's nothing but frustration, as the spindle isn't normal to the resting surface, flexes with even light edge pressure, and the motor is way under powered to work an Alder body edge.

check out Equipment Sales and Surplus in Auburn, WA where you can get one of these Jet spindle sanders dent & scratch on a pretty regular basis for around $199 last time I checked (link is for new item, not a d&s special)

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

they advertise on the local craigslist, but stuff tends to move really fast when the semi truck brings a new load

here's a Jet 14" 'Pro' model bandsaw they have in d&s for $765
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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For $300, I was able to purchase a barely used Jet bandsaw with riser block and roller base just like the one @Rodent posted above.

All it needed was new "tires" and it was good to go, and it came with a number of extra blades.

I know it's not something @BassHappy is intersted in, but it's worth considering for others who may read this thread.

I have found that the bigger and heavier a tool is, the tougher it seems to be to resell.
 
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I wouldn't get that 6" hook and loop sander because you will have a hard time sourcing paper locally. Stick with a 5", I have a rigid from Home Depot, and I have to say I am not happy with it, It's not very smooth and wants wander.
 
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I wouldn't get that 6" hook and loop sander because you will have a hard time sourcing paper locally. Stick with a 5", I have a rigid from Home Depot, and I have to say I am not happy with it, It's not very smooth and wants wander.

The 5" DeWalt I have is actually a good one. That's odd that the Rigid is not that great. Rigid is usually pretty solid for the price.
 
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Compressor- biggest oiless you can buy with your budget. THEN save for 2 more months to buy the next biggest. I have an 80 gallon 5 hp single stage. Runs slow and effortlessly on 220. Ive done the equivalent of 20 full car paintjobs with it. Minus regular oil changes and air filter cleanings. . . Never cost me anything but electricity! Almost in constant use for something. I kinda have one of every HF air tool ther is. Most of them have been very reliable and used fairly frequently

My compressor is 16 a scfm rated so it will spray large areas with an HVLP gun without kicking on.

If my recommendation sounds like overkill. . .ok maybe a bit BUT you wont be sorry. NOW space can become a limitation like it is for many.

Happy, hope you are getting closer to being tooled up

T-bone- -°thanks for the search language on the shaping disc.
 
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The 5" DeWalt I have is actually a good one. That's odd that the Rigid is not that great. Rigid is usually pretty solid for the price.

The Rigid was fine when it was new. I think something is wrong with it because it tries to walk on me instead of easily staying in one place. It just didn't last very long before it started doing this.
 
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Compressor- biggest oiless you can buy with your budget. THEN save for 2 more months to buy the next biggest. I have an 80 gallon 5 hp single stage. Runs slow and effortlessly on 220. Ive done the equivalent of 20 full car paintjobs with it. Minus regular oil changes and air filter cleanings. . . Never cost me anything but electricity! Almost in constant use for something. I kinda have one of every HF air tool ther is. Most of them have been very reliable and used fairly frequently

My compressor is 16 a scfm rated so it will spray large areas with an HVLP gun without kicking on.

If my recommendation sounds like overkill. . .ok maybe a bit BUT you wont be sorry. NOW space can become a limitation like it is for many.

Happy, hope you are getting closer to being tooled up

T-bone- -°thanks for the search language on the shaping disc.

It sounds like we have a similar compressor, makes about the same SCFM at 135 psi. Mine is advertised at 6.5 hp but the motor amperage calculates to a 5hp motor.

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