Workshop Tools - the essentials???

[Jisch]

I bought the $39 blue set in the wood box. Complete crap, they burn and chatter, oh and they cut a little wood too. I also bought a 10 bit set of bearing guided bits from MLCS, I haven't used them a lot, but they seem well constructed and worked well. A friend of mine swears by the brand. Once I got the set and really looked at the included bits I realized that I will probably not use some of them very often, if at all. From here forward I'm just going to buy individual router bits that I need.

 

[BassHappy]

Happy,

Gonna guess that for your grinder you are likely hunting what are called flap discs. Basically folded sandpaper designed to work on a grinder. Hope that is what you were thinking of.

Brent

Not sure, but I have searched until I am blue in the face and I see nothing online that looks remotely like it. I asked them if it has some diamonds sprinkled on the surface or something - but they didn't think it did. I mean this sucker REALLY cuts and shapes like nothing I have ever seen, granted in my limited experience. I used to watch my Dad grind auto bodies all the time, but not much experience grinding, shaping and carving guitar bodies. But I was very impressed with it. I will post a photo of it tomorrow when I get back.

 

[PDX Rich]

Anyone have experience with these? Seems like a decent price, but no idea of the quality:





I mean $249 is 1/2 price over the ones above that were nearly $500. and that set was only 24.

Amana is the other brand that slipped my mind.

Yes. Buy as you need--there are certainly more bit types out there than are used normally for guitar work. The only set I have is a roundover set by CMT. Otherwise, it is a series of different types of top or bottom bearing pattern bits by Freud and Amana. Each of those was determined by what I needed to do at the time. No need to get crown molding bits unless you favor that look on your guitar! The cost is very high otherwise! There are numerous other bits that are fantastic for your router sled as well, depending on how much wood you need to remove per pass. That only represents a fraction of the styles of bit available on the market. If you are doing primarily guitar building, why clog up your bit shelf/bin/box/rack with bits you will not use (often)? <<<clutter>>> eeeeee

That, and a good Freud bit will cost ~ $30, so there is that....Amazon is also your friend here!

And again, safety! I'd really not want to muck around with a cheap chunk of sharp metal spinning at ~ 28k RPM!! If I had to choose two replaceable things to spend extra cash on, it would be well-made router bits and table saw blades.

 

[PDX Rich]

I've seen folks use angle grinders for guitar work. I think @earlysecond has it right about flap disks. They are fairly rigid and also used for metal burr smoothing. For me, I find an angle grinder excellent for cutting steel drums in half for garden planters. I do not think I have a steady enough hand for applying that tool to wood!

Edit: and the Bosch angle grinder seems like a solid tool. I have only used the metal cutting disks in 4.5" so my usage sample is rather limited. For guitar necks, I'd still go hand tools every time. Mainly because I hate having to start a neck over unless it twisted after glue up.

 

[BassHappy]

Amana is the other brand that slipped my mind.

Yes. Buy as you need--there are certainly more bit types out there than are used normally for guitar work. The only set I have is a roundover set by CMT. Otherwise, it is a series of different types of top or bottom bearing pattern bits by Freud and Amana. Each of those was determined by what I needed to do at the time. No need to get crown molding bits unless you favor that look on your guitar! The cost is very high otherwise! There are numerous other bits that are fantastic for your router sled as well, depending on how much wood you need to remove per pass. That only represents a fraction of the styles of bit available on the market. If you are doing primarily guitar building, why clog up your bit shelf/bin/box/rack with bits you will not use (often)? <<<clutter>>> eeeeee

That, and a good Freud bit will cost ~ $30, so there is that....Amazon is also your friend here!

And again, safety! I'd really not want to muck around with a cheap chunk of sharp metal spinning at ~ 28k RPM!! If I had to choose two replaceable things to spend extra cash on, it would be well-made router bits and table saw blades.

Thanks Rich

Sounds like great advice to me!

 

[earlysecond]

Rich,

I am soon to find out how my shaping skills are with an angle grinder. I think I MAY practice on some scrap first though. I have an idea to make the carve a bit more fool proof, because I am a fool. IF I find the electric angle grinder a bit weildy, then my other option is my angle die grinder with which I routinely shape and blend metal!

Happy.
I was sorting through all the stuff I bought recently, last evening, in search of the bridge for my current build. I looked at this box full of all kinds of cool stuff and thought "man, just like Christmas for me !". That is how it is likely going to feel to you as you tool up!

Keep at it.

PS- so far I have a mix of quality on my router bits. My template bits are the best I can buy and the flush trim's and roundovers, because I use them less, are the cheapest I could source at HF or box stores. Because I did not know what types of bits, other than the bearing, template bits I would use most frequently, I bought a big set of cheapies and started there. When I wear out the lesser quality ones, I will replace them with good ones. I'm pretty sure, although the name escapes me, I bought bits at my local cabinet shop and if you pay for the shipping both ways, they will sharpen them free as long as you own them! That was a selling feature for me. My 1/2 template, bearing router bit gets used on every neck joint, pick up cut out, and control cavity I make, quite a bit of use!

 

[BassHappy]

I've seen folks use angle grinders for guitar work. I think @earlysecond has it right about flap disks. They are fairly rigid and also used for metal burr smoothing. For me, I find an angle grinder excellent for cutting steel drums in half for garden planters. I do not think I have a steady enough hand for applying that tool to wood!

Edit: and the Bosch angle grinder seems like a solid tool. I have only used the metal cutting disks in 4.5" so my usage sample is rather limited. For guitar necks, I'd still go hand tools every time. Mainly because I hate having to start a neck over unless it twisted after glue up.

Hey Rich

You can't see the top where all the excitement is - but this is the grinder we used:

Ah, found a photo of the grinder blade, but not a very good one:

And here are some shots of the Jens Ritter shop that I took in Germany last October. Sorry for the poor quality. The building is a really old former winery in Deidesheim:

Surprisingly small shop:

And his showroom:

Will post a better photo of the grinder blade tomorrow.

 

[mapleglo]

I have a Bosch router bit and it does fine. That Bosch set has a few bits you'd likely never use for guitar building though. I bought all of my bits on an "as needed" basis, so each one is useful. You'll need a few round over bits, and a few "pattern" bits (which have the little bearing at the top or bottom), and a few straight bits (for truss rods, if you're building your own necks). I'd imagine you'll save some money on a set, but it's not a savings if you'll not use all the bits.

For body contours, I use a belt sander. I suppose an angle grinder could work as well. I have one of those also, but never use it for body work. A good rasp will also do the job. I tend to do the initial shaping with the belt sander and finish up with the rasp. Power tools can take *a lot* of wood off *very* quickly. Use with caution.

 

[earlysecond]

Happy,

Now I am curious so could you please find out what that wheel is on the angle grinder. Any round wheel, with rounded up edges with rasp like teeth would really make the wood fly! Just wondering what that is.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

King Arthur's 11025 Galahad Tungsten Carbide Shaping Disc, 4-1/2"x7/8"

Invalid Link Removed

Direct from the factory $50 - Seen at $35-40 elsewhere.

They also make the chainsaw blades for grinders. Count your legs after use.

 

[BTL]

Lots of good ideas here.

The BEST idea is: Check your local Craigslist for the biggest/most expensive tools.

If you're willing to drive a bit for a perfect/great deal, use www.searchtempest.com.

They don't make them like they used to, and if they do, they are VERY expensive.

As excited as you are about getting into woodworking, there is another guy nearby just as excited to get out of it.

Something like this is a steal, but you will need to run a 220 line to run it:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[BassHappy]

Happy,

Now I am curious so could you please find out what that wheel is on the angle grinder. Any round wheel, with rounded up edges with rasp like teeth would really make the wood fly! Just wondering what that is.

Hey Early

All I can say is that whatever material it is - I was pretty impressed. The way it looked, I thought that grinder would be very aggressive and would shave off a LOT of material really quickly, but truth is - it was very incremental. The mahogany went pretty quick, but the harder maple took quite a bit longer. Glenn and Ernie have a lot of experience sculpting and shaping wood. I am pleased to be learning from them. I was very apprehensive when we got the bodies cut out and we were starting on the radical carves that I wanted for these basses. Glenn was like - I know the basic feel you are looking for and I have just the ticket. He grabbed the angle tool and tightened down the special grinding attachment. He asked me a few more questions and he marked the front and back of the bodies precisely with a pencil in the areas that needed to be contoured.

The two solid bodies have descended precisely from the three hollow bodies, the only shape difference is that they are double cutaways. I wanted all five of them to have their own distinct personalities. I achieved that mostly with the carving, and the different body thicknesses. So when they carved I gave them the artistic freedom to make them all a little different from each other - especially in the beginning. I wanted to experiment with this part. They used the grinder in long wide strokes going carefully up and down the sides of the body and along the edges until it was near the pencil lines. Then it was the finish sander and smoothing it the rest of the way with that. The carving process took place over several weekends and it was great, because I could live with the designs and stare at them - and then explain to them what to focus on next. I was also very careful to keep the center surface of the front of the bodies level and untouched until we had the bridge blocks in and the bridges mounted. Then we went back and really finished rounding out the contours with no bridge fears. Ernie would work on the ones Glenn started and Glenn would touch up Ernie's work. Father Ernie is a pretty conventional hand tool guy - slow and meticulous - and son Glenn very much more power tool oriented - quick and calculated. I did a lot of carving with the grinder practicing on scrap wood - but in the end this is one of the areas where I decided to watch and not be "hands on". I am confident now after observing that with some more practice I can master it.

Eventually, we got them all just the way I wanted them. After scratching my head - I still have some grinding to do tomorrow on the mahogany back of one of the hollow bodies and then they will be 100% complete.

 

[BassHappy]

King Arthur's 11025 Galahad Tungsten Carbide Shaping Disc, 4-1/2"x7/8"

Invalid Link Removed

Direct from the factory $50 - Seen at $35-40 elsewhere.

They also make the chainsaw blades for grinders. Count your legs after use.

Hey T-Bone

That does kind of look like it - can confirm tomorrow!

 

[BassHappy]

Lots of good ideas here.

The BEST idea is: Check your local Craigslist for the biggest/most expensive tools.

If you're willing to drive a bit for a perfect/great deal, use www.searchtempest.com.

They don't make them like they used to, and if they do, they are VERY expensive.

As excited as you are about getting into woodworking, there is another guy nearby just as excited to get out of it.

Something like this is a steal, but you will need to run a 220 line to run it:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Hey Thanks Brad!

As previously mentioned not a Craigslist or "used" guy here, looking for that full warranty! Unless, of course, you want to make a trip up to New York and fix it for me when it breaks down.

I'll throw the shrimps and the steaks on the barbie and make sure the adult beverages are flowing....

 

[michaelwayneharwood]

I bought the $39 blue set in the wood box. Complete crap, they burn and chatter, oh and they cut a little wood too. I also bought a 10 bit set of bearing guided bits from MLCS, I haven't used them a lot, but they seem well constructed and worked well. A friend of mine swears by the brand. Once I got the set and really looked at the included bits I realized that I will probably not use some of them very often, if at all. From here forward I'm just going to buy individual router bits that I need.

I buy a lot of bits from MLCS, and have been really happy with them.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

For the shapes available that way (mostly straight spiral) , I find that solid carbide milling (metalwork) cutters are very nice and at very nice prices, especially when Enco is running a sale on what you need. Pay attention to shank diameter, of course, and you generally have to stick with single-ended types for a router collet.

 

[BTL]

Hey Thanks Brad!

As previously mentioned not a Craigslist or "used" guy here, looking for that full warranty! Unless, of course, you want to make a trip up to New York and fix it for me when it breaks down.

I understand how you feel, and I get it.

That said, very often with power tools, within a given budget, the used stuff is often more reliable than new.

Of course, YMMV and all that.

 

[BassHappy]

I understand how you feel, and I get it.

That said, very often with power tools, within a given budget, the used stuff is often more reliable than new.

Of course, YMMV and all that.

Hey Brad

I appreciate the sentiment, I really do....

The only potential individual investments on my wish list over $200 bucks would be the band saw, drill press and the table saw - and they are all under $425. I suppose if I were retired and had the intention of using this equipment full time - shopping around Craigslist would be fun and make sense. Time is at a premium these days and I seriously doubt if I would ever log enough usage on any of these pieces to have much in the way of equipment breakdowns, especially if I stay with Bosch. Of course, much stranger things have happened and no one is immune to equipment failure. That is what warranties are for. I do realize, even MMMV.

I also don't have access to a truck or helpers to transport any serious equipment - so that additional expense is also a consideration. Remember, I am in New York. Everyone gets a premium price here - almost by design. Free shipping and 2-5 year warranties are very appealing. The quickest and shortest distance between two points will always be a straight line.

 

[BassHappy]

King Arthur's 11025 Galahad Tungsten Carbide Shaping Disc, 4-1/2"x7/8"

Invalid Link Removed

Direct from the factory $50 - Seen at $35-40 elsewhere.

They also make the chainsaw blades for grinders. Count your legs after use.

Hey T Bone

The more I read about the Galahad the more I think it's what we used. More here:

Will check in tomorrow to verify, but I am pretty sure you are right. Have no idea how you found it online - I tried every search known to man!

Thanks so much!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

wood disc grinder

and google as the search engine seemed to work.