Workshop Tools - the essentials???

[BassHappy]

No offense meant honestly.

Just figured if you had a lease agreement going together, easier to ask about these things BEFORE they get put in and he says...."wish I had known before we installed those". Lease being 7 years if accepted is 7 years worth of savings on any of it. The insulation, will go a long way, windows are a big heat loss.

Looked at relocating a few years back to the Watkins Glen area but the taxes for me seem worse than Connecticut and the ratio of taxes versus services is skewed more toward taxes. So we passed, BUT we have no family there just ties to the old track.

State of Confusion......Good One! Actually, I always refer to Connecticut and being New York State's Beta test site for liberal policies. According to Freedom Of Information records, Connecticut politicians are funded more by New Yorkers than native Connecticut people. Greetings from the Socialist State Of Connecticut.

Again, meant no offense, just thought having the 7 year lease might be able to leverage and address these details BEFORE the work has been completed.

Hey Ross

No offense taken, believe me!

And you are absolutely right, the sooner I can get my 2 cents worth in on my "wish list" for the lease - the more likely it will happen. Unfortunately, I am dealing with a very smart attorney. He knows better than to negotiate while the building looks terrible and is still under construction. So I am dealing with a dual edged sword or a catch-22 if you will....

I have friends in Danbury and Newtown and I am over across 84 into NYS. It's a nice area but our taxes and insurance are over the top expensive. Love what I do and will probably continue for at least another six or seven years. LOL - it's the only way we can afford to live here!

 

[mapleglo]

Thanks everyone for all the responses, much appreciated! I have to chuckle a little at how much machinery and the emotional bonds are so much like the bonds we have with Fender vs. Squire vs. Rickenbacker vs. Spector ad infinitum. It's quite a hoot.
...

I definitely have my preferred brands for tools. I have a Bosch jig saw which i really like, so when I saw you were thinking about a few Bosch tools, I felt that was a good thing. For routers however, I think the Porter Cable brand is best, as Hopkins suggested. I didn't say anything at that time as I figured Hopkins would suggest it. That'll likely be my next investment. But you're right, I think we all tend to favor our brands, whether it's Fender and Rickenbacker, or Bosch and Delta.

For what it's worth, I like Snap-On hand tools

 

[BassHappy]

I definitely have my preferred brands for tools. I have a Bosch jig saw which i really like, so when I saw you were thinking about a few Bosch tools, I felt that was a good thing. For routers however, I think the Porter Cable brand is best, as Hopkins suggested. I didn't say anything at that time as I figured Hopkins would suggest it. That'll likely be my next investment. But you're right, I think we all tend to favor our brands, whether it's Fender and Rickenbacker, or Bosch and Delta.

For what it's worth, I like Snap-On hand tools

Hey thanks 'glo

Man, I remember the Snap On tool truck arriving weekly at my Dad's body shop. As a young lad - my most intense memory of that truck was how it smelled. Ah, the smell of new tools in the morning...

Truth be told I have an incredible soft spot in my heart of hearts for German technology and engineering. It's spurred on by the nearly 2 years I spent over there. If Bosch made everything I want - at the end of my research - it would not surprise me one bit if I ended up with all Bosch. There is a thread on our good TB - although a shortie and an oldie - about one vs. the other here:

Routers: Bosch 1617EVS vs Porter-Cable 892

In his defense, the thread is two years old and our friend Hopkins deserves an opportunity to change his mind. And change his mind is what he did - which is certainly everyone's right:

"There is no real advantage or disadvantage for either one in this case, as both are basically identical spec wise, and both very good routers. I guess I would probably just save the $12.50 and go with the Bosch."

Today, however, he has a new "gold standard" which I find kind of interesting:

"Bosch tools are great, but as far as routers go, as far as I am concerned Porter Cable is the gold standard and will save you some money over the Bosch."

So, not sure if the models changed, or the price of the Cole Porter opps, sorry I meant the Porter Cable came down or exactly what has happened?

There is - believe it or not - a Router Forum:

Routers: Bosch 1617EVS vs Porter-Cable 892

and here are some posts about one vs. the other, that I saw - again not recent so you have me there - and the model numbers are apparently not the same as the newer versions - so this might be pretty pointless:

"There really is no comparison between the PC895 and the Bosch MRC23EVSK other than the fact that they are both combo kits. I spent a couple months getting PC to recall the defective bases they issued. Both the plunge and fixed bases were redesigned. In fairness PC did exchange the defective bases for anyone who knew to ask for them. The Bosch "23" has more power, a full 3" plunge depth, LED work lights and a trigger switch so you can start/stop the router with both hands in place. The new power bus means no cord loop between the motor and base to get in the way....I am very pleased with mine."

"I have both the PC and Bosch routers in my shop and tend to use the Bosch more frequently. I just like how the motor fits in the bases (easier to transfer) and the fixed base handles just feel better to me for some reason. I would have a hard time finding a quality or performance difference between the two brands though. Both have worked well for me for quite a while now so other than my "feel preference" it's a toss up for me."

My "gold standard" so far, will have to be the Bosch. I am sure that if you wanted to find some data to support your choice of the Porter Cable you could probably find it there too.

That's the whole thing - it's entirely subjective. I happen to love the wooden handles on the Bosch. Sometimes it simply boils down to what feels good in your hands. Same with basses.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Hey Ross

No offense taken, believe me!

And you are absolutely right, the sooner I can get my 2 cents worth in on my "wish list" for the lease - the more likely it will happen. Unfortunately, I am dealing with a very smart attorney. He knows better than to negotiate while the building looks terrible and is still under construction. So I am dealing with a dual edged sword or a catch-22 if you will....

So, be ready to negotiate like a smart tenant - have other spaces to suit your needs in your quiver, or Mr. Smart Lawyer will have you over a proverbial barrel, negotiating-wise.

 

[BassHappy]

So, be ready to negotiate like a smart tenant - have other spaces to suit your needs in your quiver, or Mr. Smart Lawyer will have you over a proverbial barrel, negotiating-wise.

Great advice T Bone!

Yes, the realtor already has another property - you have to understand - garages with nice professional offices above it - are next to impossible to find in these parts. But she has another property that is closing soon so we are shooting for that one as well, which will have an office/garage rental. It's very simple - yes, I am in love and would be ecstatic to get the barn. BUT - I have a budget and limits and I will make a proposal and he will either accept it or reject it. I am not gonna be dicked around by him or anyone else when I am committing to a 7 year lease. Certain things for me are not negotiable. I have been in my current office for 18 years and in the same building for 24 years. I can stay there another 7 no sweat. It's actually quite nice, I just don't have a place to keep my hot rod - so it is in a storage locker 1/4 mile away. Plus it would be nice if my office was closer to home. I have a Manhattan office as well, but manage to rarely have to go there. The garage is the biggest issue I am trying to solve. After all, it's starting to be car show time!

 

[lbridenstine]

As far as the bandsaw goes, it has a 3 star review, so I would look into why the reviews are low. I have a Central Machinery/HF lathe that worked great until it stopped working (I think it just needs a new capacitor) and I tried looking up Central Machinery and couldn't find anything at all for this brand. In my case, it turns out that Grizzly has a capacitor that will fit it because their lathe is almost the exact same one, so it's possible that things would work out like that for the bandsaw too. But, the Craftsman bandsaw has been working pretty well for me and I did have a repair guy come out one time when it was under warranty and that all went smoothly. I'd like a better one, but it has a good re-saw capacity for tops, and I can do everything I need to build guitars/basses with it. The manual tension knob instead of a quick release is annoying, but for the price range, I don't know if it gets any better. They have an entire parts store online for anything you could possibly need to replace on it too, so that's helpful.

I think I got a random orbital sander at Menards for $25 if I remember right. It looks almost identical and it works great. Might be worth looking into for half the price.

 

[lbridenstine]

PS Harbor Freight has great prices on clamps, "Helping Hands" (for soldering the electronics), hole reamers, screw drivers, etc. and they have sales all the time too. It's a good place to buy some of the non-heavy duty items. Not to say that none of the heavy duty stuff from them would work good, I'd just look into reviews first.

 

[Jisch]

I have that Porter Cable router it works great, but I've only had it since December. I got both bases with it, and to my surprise I have used both of them.

 

[BassHappy]

As far as the bandsaw goes, it has a 3 star review, so I would look into why the reviews are low. I have a Central Machinery/HF lathe that worked great until it stopped working (I think it just needs a new capacitor) and I tried looking up Central Machinery and couldn't find anything at all for this brand. In my case, it turns out that Grizzly has a capacitor that will fit it because their lathe is almost the exact same one, so it's possible that things would work out like that for the bandsaw too. But, the Craftsman bandsaw has been working pretty well for me and I did have a repair guy come out one time when it was under warranty and that all went smoothly. I'd like a better one, but it has a good re-saw capacity for tops, and I can do everything I need to build guitars/basses with it. The manual tension knob instead of a quick release is annoying, but for the price range, I don't know if it gets any better. They have an entire parts store online for anything you could possibly need to replace on it too, so that's helpful.

I think I got a random orbital sander at Menards for $25 if I remember right. It looks almost identical and it works great. Might be worth looking into for half the price.

Hey Lisa

Thanks for the info. Glad to hear that the Craftsman band saw is working out alright for you. One of the things I am trying to avoid with the band saw is the shipping fees, because they are heavy suckers and not cheap to ship. You can see that on my purchase list all the shipping is free except for the band saw. Sears makes sense also because of the warranty service - and it's nice to hear that your warranty service call with them went well. No matter what anyone says, I always assume there are going to be problems - there almost always are. If not, you can be pleasantly surprised. There is also a place here called "Tool Nuts" which is a great shop but they only have the high end band saws, like $3K up.

So really, the Sears Craftsman at $419 is cheaper than the Central Machinery model at $466 (delivered) and is the only local choice. Leaning that way for sure and for certain. Big advantage with the free delivery and the warranty. My Dad was always really big on Craftsman stuff too.

So you are saying that your sander is identical to the Bosch but with a different name? I don't have a Mernard's out here, but I love those stores, they are in Fort Wayne. Does your orbital sander have the dust canister with the paper filter? When I read the fine print, it seems like the Bosch stuff almost always has a few extra features and the ergonomics are always great. German companies work directly with physical therapists and chiropractors to make sure the tools they make are designed and dialed in for long term maximum comfort - which usually translates into less repetitive stress issues. For another $20 bucks I would be inclined to go with the Bosch. I'm not looking to pinch pennies here, also not looking to waste my money.

Thanks for the tip on the Harbor Freight clamps. I am at the shop tomorrow and I am going to have Ernie and Glenn write down for me a list of the various clamps we used and what they feel I would be wise to get. They literally have every design and model of clamp I have ever seen - which they have accumulated over the years.

 

[lbridenstine]

I just looked on Menards website and I think the one you originally posted is the one I have, but the price is $50+ on Menards website. There must have been a sale going on when I bought it.

It is a good sander. The ones my dad used to have (not orbital), would vibrate terribly and fatigue your arm really fast, but this one doesn't at all.

 

[BassHappy]

MY BIG FEAR....

Here is a bench that the woman pictured below just finished at Bentwood, the woodshop/studio where I work.

"This Roubo bench design was from a set of plans that we ordered for her, we did flip the vises so she could utilize it better as she is a lefty! She put in a great deal of time to make this stunning solid maple bench! Well done Sue! We will certainly miss this bench! We hope this bench will be on a long journey of making things with you Sue!"

Nothing if not amazing. They don't do anything "scratch" or half-way. Just preparing myself for the two benches that we will end up going nuts on and will cost a gazillion dollars.

Such is life...

 

[BassHappy]

I just looked on Menards website and I think the one you originally posted is the one I have, but the price is $50+ on Menards website. There must have been a sale going on when I bought it.

It is a good sander. The ones my dad used to have (not orbital), would vibrate terribly and fatigue your arm really fast, but this one doesn't at all.

Hey thanks Lisa....

I notice that the Bosch one does mention low vibration as a feature. Yeah, buying things on sale is the way to go when you can. I hope I have the barn sorted out before memorial day, I might be able to save some dough.

 

[mapleglo]

It's funny, I have a Makita orbital finishing sander and I never use it. I just sand everything by hand. Maybe I'm working too hard

 

[MrArose13]

I think this is great thread, I schemed through it so my apologizes if I repeat any thing as jump in to this conversation. From time to time a this one or that one thread comes up, but it's nice to see an overall tooling up Q and A,

It's always a challenge to find good tools, especially at a good price. There's also a lot of double dealing within tool company's, where one company owns multiple name brands and sold at different price points. Not to mention some company's use the some manufactures. So often times you can get the same tool at a lesser price just by going with a different brand. For example.. my first router was a craftsman pro. brand fixed/plunge kit. At the time I bought it, Sears was using the same manufacture facility as Bosch, so essentially I got the Bosch pictured in you list for $150 with the craftsman name on it, and it's still throwing chips. last year I bought another of the fixed base Bosch routers at Lows, on close out, and on sale for fathers day for about $70. That said I'm an advocator for the Bosch router. That leads me to this statement, We all know time is money, but until we get money for our time, time is free and being frugal takes time.

So as I'm getting a bit wordy let me try to quickly get to the good stuff... I've got a lot of tools from HF and most of the time you have to consider them disposable which works out when there are supper cheep. some times you get a diamond in the rough. the first repair shop i worked in had the 14" band saw I was very disappointed with its performance, I would not recommend it. I bought a craftsman pro 14" band saw at least 8 years ago (it was made in the Rikon factory, I think they still are) I upgraded it with Carter bearings and never looked back. I think Grizzly is good here too for price and quality.

I agree with Hopkins on the HF work bench, you cant build even a smaller version for the same price (on sale + 20 percent coupon, its a bargain) most of it is made from maple. It has it short comings such as Ibridenstien mentioned, but that's a simple up grade shop project. I have one and I love it, I wouldn't mind having a couple more. I'll take a few pix of my upgrades and throw them in her later.

I need to wrap this post up, but I've got so much to say... Ha Ha. For now I'll leave with this, look for sales, take the time to do your home work on who REALLY makes what, spend a little more money on the tools you will use a lot, (band saw, routers, sanders, Etc..) think of simple DIY upgrades,(like build a stand for the "table saw" instead of buying one) actually call a company and ask about scratch and dent items, look into manufacture reconditioned tools w/warranties (Sears has a whole web site of over stock and reconditioned tools). Lastly, think about add-ons, if you get a good deal on a tool, say $100, but it needs $100 worth of add-ons to do what you need it to, then the tool for $150 or $175 with similar accessories is a better deal, or vice versa.

As I said before, I'll pop back in with more of my $.02 and hope it's helpful.

 

[PDX Rich]

I'd love to build a Roubo bench someday. Well, not to spec, but more geared towards what I feel comfortable with.

Harbor Freight, as Lisa mentioned, can be great for certain things like clamps and other doodads. Once you get into the power tools, it is hit or miss.

As far as bandsaws, I have a Rikon 10-325, which is a wonderful machine. They have since upgraded the model to 10-326, which features upgraded bearing guides. I got a good deal, so I am not complaining.

Porter Cable vs. Bosch: They are both excellent routers and either is on my short list when I get a second (my current is a compact DeWalt, which is nice, but is a 1/4" collet and thus limits bit selection (a bit).

 

[BassHappy]

I think this is great thread, I schemed through it so my apologizes if I repeat any thing as jump in to this conversation. From time to time a this one or that one thread comes up, but it's nice to see an overall tooling up Q and A,

It's always a challenge to find good tools, especially at a good price. There's also a lot of double dealing within tool company's, where one company owns multiple name brands and sold at different price points. Not to mention some company's use the some manufactures. So often times you can get the same tool at a lesser price just by going with a different brand. For example.. my first router was a craftsman pro. brand fixed/plunge kit. At the time I bought it, Sears was using the same manufacture facility as Bosch, so essentially I got the Bosch pictured in you list for $150 with the craftsman name on it, and it's still throwing chips. last year I bought another of the fixed base Bosch routers at Lows, on close out, and on sale for fathers day for about $70. That said I'm an advocator for the Bosch router. That leads me to this statement, We all know time is money, but until we get money for our time, time is free and being frugal takes time.

So as I'm getting a bit wordy let me try to quickly get to the good stuff... I've got a lot of tools from HF and most of the time you have to consider them disposable which works out when there are supper cheep. some times you get a diamond in the rough. the first repair shop i worked in had the 14" band saw I was very disappointed with its performance, I would not recommend it. I bought a craftsman pro 14" band saw at least 8 years ago (it was made in the Rikon factory, I think they still are) I upgraded it with Carter bearings and never looked back. I think Grizzly is good here too for price and quality.

I agree with Hopkins on the HF work bench, you cant build even a smaller version for the same price (on sale + 20 percent coupon, its a bargain) most of it is made from maple. It has it short comings such as Ibridenstien mentioned, but that's a simple up grade shop project. I have one and I love it, I wouldn't mind having a couple more. I'll take a few pix of my upgrades and throw them in her later.

I need to wrap this post up, but I've got so much to say... Ha Ha. For now I'll leave with this, look for sales, take the time to do your home work on who REALLY makes what, spend a little more money on the tools you will use a lot, (band saw, routers, sanders, Etc..) think of simple DIY upgrades,(like build a stand for the "table saw" instead of buying one) actually call a company and ask about scratch and dent items, look into manufacture reconditioned tools w/warranties (Sears has a whole web site of over stock and reconditioned tools). Lastly, think about add-ons, if you get a good deal on a tool, say $100, but it needs $100 worth of add-ons to do what you need it to, then the tool for $150 or $175 with similar accessories is a better deal, or vice versa.

As I said before, I'll pop back in with more of my $.02 and hope it's helpful.

Hey Mister

Lots of fine and worthwhile information in here, thanks for posting! I am enjoying everyone's .02 cents, it's all very helpful. I see what they do there - making tools in the same factory under a couple of different names or brands. I would be a little concerned with parts though - using one of the off brands. I am sure it's a good idea to keep your eyes open as well for sales, or scratch and dent items - maybe even reconditioned tools with warranties. All sound like great ideas to me. And yes, I have been thinking about the accessory parts and realizing one could really get lost in that and run up the budget quickly. Looks to me like high quality Forstner bits and router bits are expensive. I see cheaper sets but I wouldn't know much about those. Seems to me that it might be worthwhile to buy quality bits individually as you need them - to avoid having a bunch of sizes you don't use. Here is a 24 piece router bit set that costs almost $500 bucks:

And another one with 24 pieces for $39 - it's such a wide difference it's hard to judge.

I got this bass set-up kit for christmas two years ago, and now that i have added a few things, it's really complete. I have over 20 basses to deal with - so I added my string peg winder/clipper, a couple of swappable nut drivers and allen drivers sized for my truss rods and a number of allen keys in various sizes. I replaced the screwdriver in the kit with my ratchet driver so I am pretty good to go. I like the portability of the kit and it fits in the pocket on my Reunion Blues bass bags I always have the essentials with me.

But gearing up for an entire workshop is a different animal and I appreciate all of the suggestions.

 

[PDX Rich]

I am not familiar with that brand of router bits. As a rule of thumb, always go for the best bits you can for both cut quality and, most importantly, safety. Freud, Whiteside = EXCELLENT. CMT is pretty good too. There is another brand whose name escapes me at the moment. Starts with an A.

 

[BassHappy]

I am not familiar with that brand of router bits. As a rule of thumb, always go for the best bits you can for both cut quality and, most importantly, safety. Freud, Whiteside = EXCELLENT. CMT is pretty good too. There is another brand whose name escapes me at the moment. Starts with an A.

Hey Rich

Thanks for the brand names. I will look for those and price them out. Would you say that buying a few quality ones as you need them is ultimately better than buying a complete set of cheap-o's? Here is a Bosch set of 10 for $139:

And a set of carbide bits from what appears to be the Far East - 60 more bits for the same price?

I mean, I can't budget $500 for router bits but I would love to have a nice selection in the arsenal. Also, not sure of the distinction between 1/4" shaft and 1/2" shaft, although the Bosch router accepts both. It would seem like the 1/2" is heavier duty, so why bother with 1/4" shafts?

Would this philosophy also go for Forstner bits as well? Could you give me some quality brand names on these as well?

I forgot to mention - we did almost all of the body shaping with a special grinder, so I will need a small angle grinder. This Bosch seems like a good choice for a small angle grinder:

I can't find the type of grinding wheel they used at the shop. I will be there tomorrow and I will get the brand on it. Many searches and I don't see anything quite like it. It was amazingly efficient at carving and sculpting the bodies. It looked like a rounded back plate with metal "granola" bits sprinkled all over it.

 

[BassHappy]

Anyone have experience with these? Seems like a decent price, but no idea of the quality:

Pretty good review here, comparing pretty favorably to Freud:

 

[earlysecond]

Happy,

Gonna guess that for your grinder you are likely hunting what are called flap discs. Basically folded sandpaper designed to work on a grinder. Hope that is what you were thinking of.

Brent