Wynton Marsalis: Sage or Idiot?

[willgroove2]

Marsalis recently slammed trumpeter Christian Scott because his rhythm section didn't swing, and therefore it wasn't jazz. In at least one interview, Scott listed a bunch of jazz players who were apparently not jazz under Marsalis' definition of jazz.

It's interesting that anyone would distinguish between the way Marsalis is in private and what he espouses in public. I would have assumed that his public persona is not like an actor who plays a role in a movie; he chooses what comes out of his mouth, and is not working off of someone else's script.

Outside the world of jazz, more people have actually heard original music by Miles Davis than by Wynton Marsalis. Isn't it funny how someone who is less influential assumes, for whatever reason, that he can decree what is acceptable... especially for an instrument he doesn't play? *laugh*

I think your referring to my post and all I'm saying, in light of all the comments about WM's personality, is that having hung with him a bit off the band stand I didn't find him to pompous or arrogant at all

 

[S.fasciani]

I think on the one hand WM has a good and fair point about amplifying the upright bass. There are many upright players who let the amp do most of the work and that IMHO is not the way to play the upright bass.
When I first started to play the upright I always thought I needed to have an amp but in hindsight I think that idea stunted my growth as, not only a bassist, but also as a musician.
But I have to say an amp is necessary for the long gigs with hard hitting drums and even louder guitarist.

 

[morgansterne]

I've not played upright bass much but I find it hard to hear really well *myself*, let alone for the other musicians or an audience. I find even the trumpet gigs I play I'd like to have a mic as I'm just not a naturally loud trumpet player and I don't want to have to project every single note.
I've seen Wynton perform and have several of his records. Marsalis has earned the right to be a dogmatic idiot and if he thinks he's better than everyone else, well, he's basically right. That having been said, if you dictate to other musicians what they can and can't do, you're going to have a harder and harder time recruiting talented people, no matter how good you might be.

 

[Sub300Hertz]

I like Brandford's sound a lot but for some reason I always got bored to death with Winton's music...now I know why!

 

[SirMjac28]

It's his opinion why attack him for that? I think he's been pretty consistent on his stance I don't agree with his opinion but it's his.

 

[T. Alan Smith]

Maybe he should force his bassist to forgo the string bass altogether and have him sing his parts. After all, it's more pure.

...and Wynton should drop the horn and sing his parts as well.

 

[BluesWalker]

Wanton is to trumpet as Jeff Belin is to bass

 

[Anthony White]

There is a sequence of Ray Brown master-classes on the Tube. In this one

at about 2:20, Brown talks to one of the students about amplification, and making sure that you play the amp, the amp doesn't play you. The sound is all in your fingers, you work really hard to develop that sound, and then you need to be careful that the amplification only amplifies that sound that originates in your fingers.

I'm struck by just how gracious Brown is, saying, buddy, turn down your amp.
he seems like a great teacher.

 

[repoman]

Where's Miles when you need him?

 

[Marial]

That said, buy or rent the DVD "Chops" about the Jazz At Lincoln Center Ellington Competition to see a different and very cool side of Wynton.

My nephew won Essentially Ellington twice as a trumpeter with the Garfield High School Jazz Band. I'm a proud uncle, and while I don't play jazz and my knowledge of the music goes only as far as a casual listener, I will say the stories my nephew tells about his time with Marsalis makes me think he is a fantastic educator. That said, it doesn't mean he's right about everything.

 

[One Drop]

I blame him for in some ways ossifying jazz according to his own vision of a purism that never actually existed.

If every bass player was Jimmy Blanton and no rooms were bigger than a ballroom he might have a point about amplification, in the real world he just sounds like a crank to me.

He became very popular for being a classical as well as jazz musician, and he was very quick to tell any journalist interested (and there were many from the mainstream ready to ask) about his peculiar and definite opinions about the state of the art and what people should be doing and listening to.

When he came up the industry was desperate for a clean cut literate standard bearer who would make jazz popular again and promote it to the young, but what was needed was improvised music that could get mainstream listeners interested again, not a repackaging of old sounds and styles played with relentless precision and a complete absence of feeling. Museum jazz.

I saw him about three times, and I'm sad and a bit ashamed (I don't really like slagging off other musicians, and I apologize in advance to those who like his music and playing) to say I never experienced the slightest twinge of interest or emotion at single note he played. Soul is a nebulous term but as a previous poster said, his music is lacking in some. To me he plays with the same pedagoguery he speaks with.

This was the '70s and I met him and the band at the Rising Sun, a tiny Mtl. landmark club, IIRC Branford was with him. What a joyless and dry unit they were, it didn't seem like a bunch of guys sparking each other musically or personally, and he took himself so seriously, so obviously a believer in his own press, that I wanted to laugh in his face and tell him to lighten up.

Sorry for the rant, really wanted to get this off my chest since he was first fêted as the future of jazz so long ago.

 

[bongomania]

^^^ That has been my experience and perception as well.

 

[One Drop]

There is nothing wrong to me with musicians who play in older styles or who do not break ground or who revive old styles for the benefit of modern audiences. I play in a cover band who does jukebox versions of popular tunes, but the day I start telling other musicians that what I do is the way to progress popular music you have permission to shoot me.

 

[TDSLaBassiste]

Late to the party, but here's my take on Wynton.

When I was in middle school, I played trumpet. Our teacher made our full band watch some Wynton Marsalis videos. He was cool then because he obviously favored the horn section and catered to them.

Then I played bass. And I heard his name get thrown around like he was the end-all-be-all of jazz. And when I went back and watched his videos and heard his band, I realized he is a pompous traditionalist who can't wrap his narrow mind around anything doing anything at all differently from what he likes. For the record, "bass" does not appear anywhere in his list of likes, either. I think he is hailed as a god by music instructors because he his head is buried so deep into the rulebook, he's perfect as a by the book teacher. But if you want a real, true musician, forget he even exists.