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Yorkville TC112 cab - seen one yet ?

Well, I finally managed to get into the Burlington L&M store this afternoon and tried out the DB 300 (1x12") combo and the 1x12 extension cabinet.

Sorry Reverend Groove that I missed you. The place was a madhouse and I didn't want to take you away from your work.

The DB 300 is a pretty nice little amp. First off, it looks good and seems solid. As Rev says, the eq seems to be flat when set in the flat (12 o'clock) position. The bass adds bass, the low mids and a bit of punch, etc.

It's a loud little sucker even without the extension cab. But it isn't a fat and warm sounding amp. Very little real bottom end even with a lot of bass boost. For some players it would be plenty and if you want lots of mids and highs this amp can really crank them out. I was using a new American Fender P through it and managed to get a compromise tone I liked with it by using a fair bit of the scoop control, a bit of bass boost and a bit of low mids. It's not an amp for the "old school" type players or anyone who wants a pillowy bottom.

I got it uncomfortably loud without any distortion from the speaker or the amp. If you want to "cut through the mix" this amp can do it. I was able to easily drown out the guitar wankers going at it in the store.

Adding the 1x12 extension didn't really add much bottom. It just got louder and kept the same tone. The stack would make quite a capable rig for gigging that isn't too hard to cart around and doesn't take up much space. You could easily fit the two into the back seat of a little compact like my Kia Rio and still have room for a couple basses.

I think Traynor will sell a lot of these if they can keep the prices down.

For me, I wouldn't use it for a big and fat R&B sound on a gig. It just won't put out enough below about 70 Hz to do that, even with the extension cabinet. No amount of bass boost will force it to do it. The specs Traynor has on their website for the 1x12 cabinet are a bit optimistic in the bottom. I shut the tweeter off in the combo and turned down the tweeter in the cabinet using the control and still had plenty of top end. I'd never use the tweeter at all myself. It's just not needed. If you're a slapper this amp will really punch it out. It'd be good for hard rock stuff too. Just don't expect any big, heavy bass. The sound actually reminds me a lot of the old Acoustic with the 1x18 folded horn cabinet when that was set flat. It won't play that loud of course but that was sort of the character of the amp.

So, all in all, it's pretty impressive for the size and price. It looks very well made and should stand up to real gig use.

I didn't get a chance to try the 300T combo with the 2x8" speakers. I imagine it would sound a lot different and not have the volume the 1x12 combo put out.

I'd recommend this amp to anyone. Just try one first to make sure you like the sound. Again, it is really a loud little thing if you want it to be and the price is right.
 
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Yes - I did get mine. Here are my thoughts on it. I am using it with a Little Mark 250 head.

Seems to be very well constructed - and a great weight . The reason I got it - was after jamming with one of the newer Fender combos - Bassman 150 112 I think - I was pleased with the tone and thought it would make a great portable rig. Even at the 8 ohms - the Traynor/LM250 is loud enought for my jamming needs.
The cabinet is very middy. Not sure if that is a word - but the EQ settings that I use with my 115 JBL equipped Doyle cab are way to mid oriented for the 112.
Once I dialed in some new settings - it sounded good. Not as good as the 115 - not even close - but still pleasing. There is a ton of air pumping out of the cab when you play - thru the front port - and even the speaker jack on the back.
Taking into consideration what it is - a small - light 112 cab - it sounds good and is definitely useable - but I dont hear any real warmth from it - more punch and modern sounding - and I'm pretty sure its the orange Celestion BTW.
Now - when I paired it with my 115 cab , and ran them together - wow. The 115 had the nice warm , round smooth tone with the 112 adding punch and clarity. It sounded great - but the 115 is the size of a house and almost as heavy - so that defeats the purpose of the whole light weight idea to take them anywhere together.
So - in closing - it does serve the purpose that I bought it for - light , portable, well built , and decent sounding. But - it's not my sound I dont think. I wouldn't buy another one - and will probably sell this one down the road - and that's probably the defining point for me. YMMV - Jim.

Jim. I pretty well agree with you about the sound. lots of punch and modern sounding. Paired with a good 1x15 it'd be quite fat.

By comparison, just before I left I tried the new Traynor Dynabass 200T combo with 2x10" speakers in it. It's bigger and heavier than the 300 combo of course, but it also puts out a bigger bottom. The larger cabinet does really improve the bottom end. It's a pretty good amp and better sounding right off the bat without fooling around with it than the Yorkville XM200TC I had a while back and it looks like it would be much easier to cart around than the old model.
 
Hey 62bass, sorry I missed you, I actually cut out early to do a gig in Concorde...thanks for the review, very interesting! I'll take a more thorough read when my ears aren't ringing and I can think properly....forgot my earplugs again and the drummer loves his cymbals...
 
I've just read the above posts. The DB300 is loud. Good!

That a compact bass amp like the DB300 doesn't have any low meat isn't surprising, which is why I'll be looking at a tilt-back DB300T and a Tech 21 VT Bass as a kind of loud, light-weight & compact 'bass-a-boogie' combo for a short-scale 6.

Modern bass beef is what PA's are for. Unless...

DB300T + Invalid Link Removed ?

Has anyone here done something similar..?
 
I've just read the above posts. The DB300 is loud. Good!

That a compact bass amp like the DB300 doesn't have any low meat isn't surprising, which is why I'll be looking at a tilt-back DB300T and Tech 21 VT Bass as a kind of loud, light-weight & compact 'bass-a-boogie' combo for a short-scale 6.

Modern bass beef is what PA's are for. Unless...

DB300T + Invalid Link Removed ?

Has anyone here done something similar..?

I went the powered sub woofer route about 10 years ago for about a year using a Yorkville 750 watt powered 2x10" bandpass cabinet along with my GK 400RB into a GK 4x10 cabinet. I used it with a separate crossover and also using the powered sub's crossover. I could never get it right. For on stage monitoring all that extra bottom end badly muddied up the onstage sound, prompting other band members to turn up to compensate and thereby wiping me right out again. In a very small room with no PA support for the bass I could add some deep bass but had to be evry careful as even a couple decibels too much turned everything into mud and once again, prompted other band members, like the guitarist who would seize any opportunity, to turn up and start the old volume wars again.

As has been debated here on TB so many times before, you don't want much of that low E, 40Hz range fundamental in your sound. Even on recordings too much makes a mess. Some of the best recorded sounds from the 60s and 70s were done with open backed guitar amps miced up and played at low volume. Not really a lot of fundamental at all. The best recorded sounds I got in the studio, and these were not home studios but the best in L.A. at the time, I got by micing first an Ampeg B15 head driving a sealed 1x12" cabinet (almost nothing below 60 Hz came out) and later a Polytone Minibrute II, another low powered 1x12 amp with rapidly decreasing output below 70Hz.

Anyhow, give it a try and see what you think. I didn't lose much money with my year long experiment. When I brought the Yorkville powered sub back into L&M to trade it in I got top dollar because it was in good shape and there just happened to be someone in the store right then looking to buy one used.

It also seems that the louder the bass gets, the less fundamental you really want to have.

Anyhow, those are just my experiences from an only slightly technically knowledgeable musician.

Yes, the DB300 will get loud and stay clean but only above about the 70Hz range. The 300T, although I didn't have time to compare it, will be less loud with the same amp power and I suspect those 8" speaker will break up a bit easier than the 12' ones will. I think it will depend a lot on what type of on stage sound you prefer and the volume you need. I do like the tilt back feature of the 300T and this might be more useful for low volume jazz gigs.

As an extension cabinet the 1x12" adds a noticeable amount of extra volume but almost no bass increase. So it's going to come down to personal preference in sound.

I much prefer the sound I get with my GK MB 150S but I can't get anywhere near the volume the Traynor DB300 gets. I'm still interested in trying the Traynor 1x12" extension cabinet with my little GK. That just might bring the little thing over the top for gigs where I need to be a bit louder.

As far as efficiency is concerned, above about 70Hz that little 12" cabinet is very efficient. It may not look like it on paper by reading the specs, but in practice it just sounds loud and pretty clean.

All in all I think Traynor is on the right track with relatively lightweight gear that sounds good at an affordable price. I imagine that if this new offering survives in the marketplace they'll continue to improve it and add others to the line. And once again, I have to say that the new Dynabass 200T is a big improvement in sound over the earlier Yorkville XM200CT. It also is a bit lighter, easier to carry with the twin handles and better looking.

By the way-I'm not compensated in any way by Traynor or L&M. I just happen to like seeing a local company do something right and succeed. I pay just as many compliments to GK, who also don't compensate me in any way. They probably don't even know I exist.
 
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I went the powered sub woofer route about 10 years ago for about a year using a Yorkville 750 watt powered 2x10" bandpass cabinet along with my GK 400RB into a GK 4x10 cabinet. I used it with a separate crossover and also using the powered sub's crossover. I could never get it right. For on stage monitoring all that extra bottom end badly muddied up the onstage sound, prompting other band members to turn up to compensate and thereby wiping me right out again. In a very small room with no PA support for the bass I could add some deep bass but had to be evry careful as even a couple decibels too much turned everything into mud and once again, prompted other band members, like the guitarist who would seize any opportunity, to turn up and start the old volume wars again.

As has been debated here on TB so many times before, you don't want much of that low E, 40Hz range fundamental in your sound. Even on recordings too much makes a mess. Some of the best recorded sounds from the 60s and 70s were done with open backed guitar amps miced up and played at low volume. Not really a lot of fundamental at all. The best recorded sounds I got in the studio, and these were not home studios but the best in L.A. at the time, I got by micing first an Ampeg B15 head driving a sealed 1x12" cabinet (almost nothing below 60 Hz came out) and later a Polytone Minibrute II, another low powered 1x12 amp with rapidly decreasing output below 70Hz.

Anyhow, give it a try and see what you think. I didn't lose much money with my year long experiment. When I brought the Yorkville powered sub back into L&M to trade it in I got top dollar because it was in good shape and there just happened to be someone in the store right then looking to buy one used.

It also seems that the louder the bass gets, the less fundamental you really want to have.

Anyhow, those are just my experiences from an only slightly technically knowledgeable musician.

Yes, the DB300 will get loud and stay clean but only above about the 70Hz range. The 300T, although I didn't have time to compare it, will be less loud with the same amp power and I suspect those 8" speaker will break up a bit easier than the 12' ones will. I think it will depend a lot on what type of on stage sound you prefer and the volume you need. I do like the tilt back feature of the 300T and this might be more useful for low volume jazz gigs.

As an extension cabinet the 1x12" adds a noticeable amount of extra volume but almost no bass increase. So it's going to come down to personal preference in sound.

I much prefer the sound I get with my GK MB 150S but I can't get anywhere near the volume the Traynor DB300 gets. I'm still interested in trying the Traynor 1x12" extension cabinet with my little GK. That just might bring the little thing over the top for gigs where I need to be a bit louder.

As far as efficiency is concerned, above about 70Hz that little 12" cabinet is very efficient. It may not look like it on paper by reading the specs, but in practice it just sounds loud and pretty clean.

All in all I think Traynor is on the right track with relatively lightweight gear that sounds good at an affordable price. I imagine that if this new offering survives in the marketplace they'll continue to improve it and add others to the line. And once again, I have to say that the new Dynabass 200T is a big improvement in sound over the earlier Yorkville XM200CT. It also is a bit lighter, easier to carry with the twin handles and better looking.

By the way-I'm not compensated in any way by Traynor or L&M. I just happen to like seeing a local company do something right and succeed. I pay just as many compliments to GK, who also don't compensate me in any way. They probably don't even know I exist.

Alrighty. Powered subs are out. Thanks for sharing your experiences 62bass.

Now, I suppose plan B would be to do a DB300 & 300T shootout, and then try & thicken up the winner's bottom with a VT Bass.

The sooner Traynor goes neo on more of their beefier bass combos and cabinets - especially the TC808 - the better.

Hmm.., as a speculation: I'm thinking maybe.., a solo DB300T for quiet gigs & gigs with PA support, and the head of a DB300T driving a neo TC808 for other gigs...

--------

Oh! And +1 on 'supporting the local merchant'. :) When I was playing pro I used a new Monoblock B and then a Monoblock II. Yes, I blew a couple of speakers (my fault), but never those Traynor heads!

EDIT: The speakers I blew were not Traynor-issue, they were EV's in Kroth cubes.

There's no need for me to buy a foreign-made amp when I'm in the same neighborhood as a world-class outfit like Yorkville Sound, which has been making bass amps since just after the Beatles played their last bar!
 
Alrighty. Powered subs are out. Thanks for sharing your experiences 62bass.

Now, I suppose plan B would be to do a DB300 & 300T shootout, and then try & thicken up the winner's bottom with a VT Bass.

The sooner Traynor goes neo on more of their beefier bass combos and cabinets - especially the TC808 - the better.

Hmm.., as a speculation: I'm thinking maybe.., a solo DB300T for quiet gigs & gigs with PA support, and the head of a DB300T driving a neo TC808 for other gigs...

--------

Oh! And +1 on 'supporting the local merchant'. :) When I was playing pro I used a new Monoblock B and then a Monoblock II. Yes, I blew a couple of speakers (my fault), but never those Traynor heads!

EDIT: The speakers I blew were not Traynor-issue, they were EV's in Kroth cubes.

There's no need for me to buy a foreign-made amp when I'm in the same neighborhood as a world-class outfit like Yorkville Sound, which has been making bass amps since just after the Beatles played their last bar!

The 300T or 1x12 300 might be the way to go. But do try both and give them a real workout.

Yes, I'd like to see Traynor go neo on more of their line. I suppose they'll have to to compete. For example, the DB200T with neo 10's would be about 10 lbs less than its current weight.

I agree with supporting the local merchants when they deserve it.
 
yeh, the DB300T for small gigs, and then the head section with a bigger cab is money in the bank...I've used the head with an XC808 at my church that meets in a former nightclub, and WOW, really nice, you'd think it was more than a 350w head!

Oh, I think you'll see a revamping of the other DB units with Neo speakers before too long...
 
If shipping savings reached a tipping point where Neo drivers were less expensive to use, everyone would be using them all the time. A detailed cost analysis is not really my bag, but that's my take on it.

Regardless, I would like to see all Neo drivers in all our bass cabs like our better PA products. But again, not my bag here.
 
Since the market will likely force Traynor to go neo on all of its bass amps eventually, how about offering neodymium speakers as a premium option on the more popular combos and cabinets?

Perhaps doing so would aid Traynor in dovetailing into a cost effective supply of neo speakers while giving those of its customers who are willing to pay a little extra for lighter gear an opportunity to do so?
 
I've been crying for Traynor to go neo on all of their bass combos and cabs.

However, there is a potential hazard associated with powerful neodymium magnets which I've just become aware of courtesy of this thread: 'Beware of the Neodymium': http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=518715

Perhaps prominent warning labels on the interior of cabs containing multiple neo speakers would be appropriate.

Loosing digits/one's livelihood from changing a blown driver would not be an obvious hazard to anyone, especially to those who are more likely to blow speakers in their rigs--younger players.

With only two exceptions, every musician in every band I played in was clueless when it came to tech.
 
Take a look at the situation, sheesh! In a speaker, maybe a few ounces of neodymium are standing in for 15 times as much ceramic material. But it's a small amount, and it's contained within a larger, heavier structure. The story deals with LARGER amounts of magnetic material, not dispersed throughout a still larger structure.

Big difference.

I do agree though that bass players shouldn't be let out of home without adult supervision ; }
 
Well, I finally managed to get into the Burlington L&M store this afternoon and tried out the DB 300 (1x12") combo and the 1x12 extension cabinet.

Sorry Reverend Groove that I missed you. The place was a madhouse and I didn't want to take you away from your work.

The DB 300 is a pretty nice little amp. First off, it looks good and seems solid. As Rev says, the eq seems to be flat when set in the flat (12 o'clock) position. The bass adds bass, the low mids and a bit of punch, etc.

It's a loud little sucker even without the extension cab. But it isn't a fat and warm sounding amp. Very little real bottom end even with a lot of bass boost. For some players it would be plenty and if you want lots of mids and highs this amp can really crank them out. I was using a new American Fender P through it and managed to get a compromise tone I liked with it by using a fair bit of the scoop control, a bit of bass boost and a bit of low mids. It's not an amp for the "old school" type players or anyone who wants a pillowy bottom.

I got it uncomfortably loud without any distortion from the speaker or the amp. If you want to "cut through the mix" this amp can do it. I was able to easily drown out the guitar wankers going at it in the store.

Adding the 1x12 extension didn't really add much bottom. It just got louder and kept the same tone. The stack would make quite a capable rig for gigging that isn't too hard to cart around and doesn't take up much space. You could easily fit the two into the back seat of a little compact like my Kia Rio and still have room for a couple basses.

I think Traynor will sell a lot of these if they can keep the prices down.

For me, I wouldn't use it for a big and fat R&B sound on a gig. It just won't put out enough below about 70 Hz to do that, even with the extension cabinet. No amount of bass boost will force it to do it. The specs Traynor has on their website for the 1x12 cabinet are a bit optimistic in the bottom. I shut the tweeter off in the combo and turned down the tweeter in the cabinet using the control and still had plenty of top end. I'd never use the tweeter at all myself. It's just not needed. If you're a slapper this amp will really punch it out. It'd be good for hard rock stuff too. Just don't expect any big, heavy bass. The sound actually reminds me a lot of the old Acoustic with the 1x18 folded horn cabinet when that was set flat. It won't play that loud of course but that was sort of the character of the amp.

So, all in all, it's pretty impressive for the size and price. It looks very well made and should stand up to real gig use.

I didn't get a chance to try the 300T combo with the 2x8" speakers. I imagine it would sound a lot different and not have the volume the 1x12 combo put out.

I'd recommend this amp to anyone. Just try one first to make sure you like the sound. Again, it is really a loud little thing if you want it to be and the price is right.

In contrast to the DynaBass 300 being described as having a light low end, my DynaBass 50 has a decent bottom (for an amp its size).

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the manuals for both amps and had a look at their Block Diagrams.

The DB 50 has a 'Contour Filter' (set to a permanent and severe mid-scoop) in the signal path between its pre-amp and power amp. This would explain how its 10" speaker in its tiny cabinet can deliver such a surprisingly rich low-end.

In contrast, the DB 300 does not have a 'Contour Filter'. Instead, it has its user-variable 'Scoop' control. To achieve a respectable amount of deep bass from the DynaBass 300's 12" speaker mounted in its small cabinet, a substantial degree of 'Scoop' will have to be applied with the attendant trade-off in loss of power amp headroom, and therefore a reduction in the DynaBass 300's maximum volume level.

I can't imagine this circumstance not being true of any single 12" speaker-equipped combo bass amp with the same cabinet size.

With this understanding in mind, I look forward to hearing what the Traynor DynaBass 300 can offer.
 
In contrast to the DynaBass 300 being described as having a light low end, my DynaBass 50 has a decent bottom (for an amp its size).

Out of curiosity, I downloaded the manuals for both amps and had a look at their Block Diagrams.

The DB 50 has a 'Contour Filter' (set to a permanent and severe mid-scoop) in the signal path between its pre-amp and power amp. This would explain how its 10" speaker in its tiny cabinet can deliver such a surprisingly rich low-end.

In contrast, the DB 300 does not have a 'Contour Filter'. Instead, it has its user-variable 'Scoop' control. To achieve a respectable amount of deep bass from the DynaBass 300's 12" speaker mounted in its small cabinet, a substantial degree of 'Scoop' will have to be applied with the attendant trade-off in loss of power amp headroom, and therefore a reduction in the DynaBass 300's maximum volume level.

I can't imagine this circumstance not being true of any single 12" speaker-equipped combo bass amp with the same cabinet size.

With this understanding in mind, I look forward to hearing what the Traynor DynaBass 300 can offer.

Interesting analysis!



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via Invalid Link Removed
 
In contrast to the DynaBass 300 being described as having a light low end,
To achieve a respectable amount of deep bass from the DynaBass 300's 12" speaker mounted in its small cabinet, a substantial degree of 'Scoop' will have to be applied with the attendant trade-off in loss of power amp headroom, and therefore a reduction in the DynaBass 300's maximum volume level.

I can't imagine this circumstance not being true of any single 12" speaker-equipped combo bass amp with the same cabinet size.

I don't disagree. That sounds to me like what I was hearing. But, I cranked the scoop up full in an attempt to get more bottom. No dice. The speaker just won't put it out. All I succeeded in doing was to lose all my mids.

By contrast, I tried a little Markbass combo with a single 12 in a cabinet about the same small size. I was able to get lots of fat bottom by boosting it in. However, the speaker would bottom out very easily when it exceeded it's limit of excursion, so while it would go low, it wouldn't do it and play loud. So, at gig volumes the Dynabass would be just as loud as the Markbass if you didn't boost the lows on the Markbass. If you boosted the lows, you would lose out on useable volume. I could easily get the little Markbass 12" to jump 1/4" by hitting a solid low E. But it was distorting and I don't think that speaker would stand up too long under that punishment. Two of them however would give you a fighting chance. But look at the difference in cost between the Dynabass and the Markbass.

Without substantially better and more expensive speakers, I just can't see the Traynor ever getting that big and fat bottom. But, if you don't need it big and fat, it sure will play pretty loud and it does sound good.

It's also nice to play on an amp where you set the eq to flat and it really is flat (or as flat as the speaker allows).

There's also lots of high end if you want it. In fact, I think the horn is not really needed. I just turned it right off.

Anyhow, give it a try when you get a chance. I'd be interested in hearing your take on it.