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You can't trust anyone

#23
No one in the entire history of electrically reinforced live music has sat in the crowd and thought to themselves: this band is great, but what they really need is some canned harmonies from a pedal. I can think of a dozen personal experiences where the exact opposite was true: This band would be better without the crutch.
 
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#24
Nev375 said:
...I kinda thought it was sarcasm but later i determined people just dont know jack.
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I'm the same way. People always say that I can't take a compliment. I just realize that many people just don't know enough to actually provide a critique. Most of the rest are either too nice, or simply not critical. I'm not saying that those are bad things; I'm not an elitist jerk. However, if you really want to improve, you won't get anywhere by asking them to point out flaws.

I will say that, even worse, is when you are working with someone like that. I have a friend who was a good musician, but was never critical of me. I would write or record things, and ask for feedback. Most of the time, he would just say "sounds good, to me". Then, if I wasn't satisfied, and tried improving things, he would get impatient and complain that it was already fine, and I was wasting time.
 
#28
I may come off as a bit harsh but "a couple of my pedals died" seems like an easily avoidable issue (i.e. Using a ps or at minimum putting fresh batteries on before the show). Additionally relying upon a friend who kinda knows their way around the board to run sound for you is not ideal for a show. Having said this, combined with the mere fact that you were using a vocal harmony pedal make me not at all surprised that you would rely upon untrained professionals in the audience to properly evaluate your vocals in the mix. Just saying.
 
#29
When I was a kid, my father posted me at the 2nd floor window of our house. He went down and yelled at me to jump, saying: «Don't be scared, I'll catch you!» I was of course terrified and wouldn't do it. He kept insisting, getting angrier and angrier, threatening to punish me if I didn't jump, while he kept saying: «Don't you trust me, your father?». I finally jumped... He moved aside and I broke a leg. As I was lying on the grass crying and hollering, I asked: «Why dad? Why did you do that to me?!!!». To which he answered: «To teach you a fundamental lesson, son: Never trust anyone.»

(And of course, this story is not true. :) Although it is my dad who told that "joke" to me when I was a kid. :( )
 
#31
bigfatbass said:
No one in the entire history of electrically reinforced live music has sat in the crowd and thought to themselves: this band is great, but what they really need is some canned harmonies from a pedal. I can think of a dozen personal experiences where the exact opposite was true: This band would be better without the crutch.
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True. I have been sort of expecting somebody to respond with this. As shown by my experience we would survive and have survived previously without it. However, I would have made different choices as to what I sung had I known it wasn't working.

I spent a very long time researching and studying before I got this pedal. For me it was a big investment and I would not have gotten it if I had been happy with the sound of the band as it is.

As a tribute show we are trying to get a near perfect imitation of the sound of the original band. A lot of tribute bands use backing tracks and I don't see how this is any better or worse than that. The backings are used where necessary in around 6 out of 24 songs. There are several songs where my own harmony vocal alone is perfectly fine.

While the lead guitarist attempts some harmonies he is the first to say that he isn't very good. We have been recording rehearsals and all agree that the pedal adds to the sound of the band for those songs that really need it.
 
#32
BaltBass5 said:
I may come off as a bit harsh but "a couple of my pedals died" seems like an easily avoidable issue (i.e. Using a ps or at minimum putting fresh batteries on before the show).
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I use a power supply and don't rely on batteries. I have batteries ready in case the power supply goes.

Two pedals, a digitech bass synth wah and an MXR M-80 had serious issues after being absolutely perfect for the last two years. I completely lost sound after the first song, signal was getting as far as the MXR as the parallel out goes to the tuner. I bypassed it for the remainder of the night. The bass synth wah started malfunctioning and letting through bursts of pretty horrible sound and cutting off overly quickly. Sounds to me like a faulty capacitor.

I have tested both since, the digitech is stuffed. The mxr I can't replicate the problem but I will continue testing it at rehearsals and not rely on it for the moment. That may have been some sort of connection problem and I'll re-check all my cables.
 
#33
The fact that the person who recommended the pedal said it was too loud when it wasn't even in the mix is significant. IMHO, this is more about the fact that most people have no idea how to critically evaluate and improve a mix than dishonesty. Now if someone tells you that the mix sounded awesome, and then it gets back to you through the grape vine that the same person said it sounded awful...that's when you should lose trust.
 
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#35
moody said:
I had a gig about a week and a half ago. It went reasonably well with some technical issues (two of my bass pedals died in the course of the night). I sing the vast majority of the harmony and backing vocals.

We didn't have much time to set up after the first band and no sound check. I had a friend of mine who knows her way around a desk doing her best to balance the vocal mix.

Among other things, the bits and pieces vocal only PA provided did not include a seperate monitor mix. All we had was the main mix in our monitors. In order to be balanced that meant that we could hear the lead vocal but couldn't hear my own backing vocals. I had no idea how my backing sounded out front.

This was the first time using a Voicelive play pedal for my backing vocals to put harmony in a few areas. During our set break I asked a couple of people including the friend running sound, another sound professional and a few friends how the harmony pedal was sounding. Everybody said it was sounding good. In one case, from a person who originally suggested me getting it, I was told that the harmony from the pedal was a touch too loud.

I got an audience recording of the gig today and listened to it. My voice is there but none of the harmonies from the unit. I think I plugged the wrong output of the pedal to the PA and none of the effected vocal was heard. It still sounds decent but doesn't have that extra sparkle from the extra harmony in the performance that I had been hoping for.

If one person had said 'I really don't hear any of the harmony you are talking about' I would have investigated and fixed it, but everyone just said how good it sounded.
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I really couldn't imagine playing with this much stuff.

I got tired just reading this.
 
#36
Slade N said:
that does not compute. a balanced mix would have both voices at appropriate levels, unless you mean that without the band the blend of the two vocals at a good level but with the band the quieter backing vocal was obscured by the band and that was the cause of you not hearing yourself. and if thats the case maybe the band was too loud in comparison to the vocals, both lead and backing?
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The supplied PA on the night was a disaster. Cheap desk set up very badly. All wires hidden so we didn't know how it was really routed. The mains and monitors were all on a pre-fader send!! The band before us was mixing with the gains! (we mixed with the aux sends). We were just happy to get a workable monitor for the lead vocal and one decent sounding working mains speaker.

My backing vocals in the mix need to be down a fair few Db to sound right. In addition, the harmonies from my pedal are generally set down 3 to 6 (depending on the situation) from my vocal. In an ideal world, my vocals and the lead singers vocals from the monitors on stage would be about at the same level.

I wear earplugs, the vocals from my wedge need to be at a certain level to get heard with the bone conduction voice already in my head.

Having a copy of what was in the mains meant that I wasn't hearing my vocal above the voice in my own head. I do admit I was surprised to not hear 'any' of my own harmonies.

All that being said, we were a bit too loud. Not in comparison to the vocals, but in general. But we are not loud like some bands out there.
 

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