FYI the neck mold for the 32” is the same as the 34. The nut is placed further towards the bridge.
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Zon basses - is everything OK ?
- Thread starter Rumblefisher
- Start date
What an odd and sad thread …
Just out of curiosity, does Mr Zon have an alternate source of income? Given an average selling price of an estimated $5K (just a guess), if he makes 20 basses a year that grosses $100K. It sounds like he has staff, so they need to get paid. And of course, raw materials, hardware, actual labor, operating expenses (rent etc) and likely a bunch of stuff I haven’t considered at all means that $100K represents a loss. 30 basses = $150K, 40 = $200K … it doesn’t seem like he completes anywhere near that # of instruments each year, based on the info in this thread and after a quick review of the club thread.
And at $200K a year, that’s barely past the hobbyist stage for a sole operator business. So, any alternate source of $$$? If it is a hobby, the delays and failure to produce make much more sense to me …
Just out of curiosity, does Mr Zon have an alternate source of income? Given an average selling price of an estimated $5K (just a guess), if he makes 20 basses a year that grosses $100K. It sounds like he has staff, so they need to get paid. And of course, raw materials, hardware, actual labor, operating expenses (rent etc) and likely a bunch of stuff I haven’t considered at all means that $100K represents a loss. 30 basses = $150K, 40 = $200K … it doesn’t seem like he completes anywhere near that # of instruments each year, based on the info in this thread and after a quick review of the club thread.
And at $200K a year, that’s barely past the hobbyist stage for a sole operator business. So, any alternate source of $$$? If it is a hobby, the delays and failure to produce make much more sense to me …
FYI - I'm pretty Zon doesn't use a physically shorter neck for 32" necks. In the short scale headless models I've seen, he used a 34" neck but fretted it to 32". 2 inches of the neck not used... I could be wrong.
Are you sure? I need to ask about this because I was under the impression it was a shorter neck
- Apr 29, 2003
- 9,073
- 9,789
- Disclosures
- Contributor- Bass Musician Magazine | Marketing Manager- Trickfish Amplification
Living in the bay area no less, some the highest cost of living expenses in the country. I dunno.
Re: deposits, my experience is that with most builders (i.e. not big factory operations), that money is gone as soon as it lands. Most builders at this scale arent banking away deposit money to spend on the build cycle they are being paid for, theyre using it to pay expenses in the here and now. Not this is any excuse to not refund someone a deposit YEARS after they agreed delivery would take place, and hasnt yet.
Yes. There is another postabout this just before mine.
My advice is for people to contact them with a different email/etc pretending to be someone else. Get a build/order all set with a date… then say.. oh wait… i actually paid already and lets finish that one first.
What an excruciatingly sad thread. There is an interesting dynamic at play in the scenario that is apparent for other non-performing custom builders.
1) A certain population of customers receive nothing at their promised completion date, and far beyond, if ever
2) Another population of customers receive completed orders in a far-shorter time
3) The customers that receive more timely delivery become apologists for the builder
4) Customers that receive nothing become their adversaries, and the waiting experience becomes suspect, with an element of deserved treatment alleged
5) Somehow the builder's imtangible mystique and promise continue to lure more customers that refuse to believe they will fall into the non-delivery paradigm
6) As long as people are willing to participate in this scenario, there will be no change in builder practice
1) A certain population of customers receive nothing at their promised completion date, and far beyond, if ever
2) Another population of customers receive completed orders in a far-shorter time
3) The customers that receive more timely delivery become apologists for the builder
4) Customers that receive nothing become their adversaries, and the waiting experience becomes suspect, with an element of deserved treatment alleged
5) Somehow the builder's imtangible mystique and promise continue to lure more customers that refuse to believe they will fall into the non-delivery paradigm
6) As long as people are willing to participate in this scenario, there will be no change in builder practice
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i wonder if small time custom builders would agree to an escrow.....
after all these stories, i'm very hesitant to plonk down a bunch of money on a custom...
after all these stories, i'm very hesitant to plonk down a bunch of money on a custom...
Yeah, at this point if I was going to do business with a company like Zon, I would tell them only way I'm doing business is Cash on Delivery. They have lost all trust to deliver at this point and there would be no other way I would do business with them. I would never put down a deposit after their track record.
I would happily do this for my TalkBass brothers and sisters, but I'm not sure it would be any more than a Gotcha! on Herr Zon.
- Apr 29, 2003
- 9,073
- 9,789
- Disclosures
- Contributor- Bass Musician Magazine | Marketing Manager- Trickfish Amplification
I’d be careful not to equate these problems to “custom builders” or “shops of this size”.
There are a LOT of small and medium sized luthiers that are rock solid and super integral with money, deadlines and agreements. This is a people issue, not a custom shop/small business issue.
There are a LOT of small and medium sized luthiers that are rock solid and super integral with money, deadlines and agreements. This is a people issue, not a custom shop/small business issue.
What frustrates me is that this build could have been completed, but the the OP changes his mind about the scale, then negotiates pricing, now is probably freaked out that the neck won't be shorter at 32" and will probably waste more time with emailing them for info. He'll figure if it's not shorter its not what he really wants, so might as well just use the original 34" neck that was built to not have to pay the extra $500 for the scale change. Every time you email them to change something, they pause the project and wait on you. Your essentially starting the build all over again.
All of this should have been figured out from the get go, not customized over the course of 5 years. How would he have any legal recourse when many of the delays are of his own making? I can't believe they were even willing to change the scale. I have no interest in Zon basses, there are plenty of production instruments out there good enough for me, so I'm not a Zon fanboy apologist, just and ordinary consumer who can't believe the thread I just read.
All of this should have been figured out from the get go, not customized over the course of 5 years. How would he have any legal recourse when many of the delays are of his own making? I can't believe they were even willing to change the scale. I have no interest in Zon basses, there are plenty of production instruments out there good enough for me, so I'm not a Zon fanboy apologist, just and ordinary consumer who can't believe the thread I just read.
Lol, "can't believe the thread."
Heres the deal...people's tastes change over time. I ordered a bass a certain way with a quoted time of 9 months delivery. After 36+ months, what I played and the way I played it changed. I had no idea where the build was in terms of completion, so I REQUESTED a change, but was ok if they said no you got it as you got it. I don't think it unreasonable after 3+ years of waiting without much communication. With regard to the neck length, I still went ahead with 32 because again, that's what I like and play.
This hasn't been customized over 5 years. I paid for a bass I never got and them asked if we could tweak a spec of it wasn't too far along yet. My tough luck, it was. Ok, whatever.
Personally I think it would have been courteous to say yes, no problem, since that's what they initially said before springing the extra charge.
I’ve been waiting 6 calendar years for my bass and I have not done any customization or changed my order since it was placed. I think the fault lies with the builder not the purchaser.
+1 to what @Rumblefisher just said.
And I would be very curious to see the current state of the bass... "No pic, no bass" as we say here on Talkbass !
And I would be very curious to see the current state of the bass... "No pic, no bass" as we say here on Talkbass !
is this why the "Zander Zon" guy on youtube now plays Dingwalls?
LOL.
I received some potentially very good news from the shop just last week, but I don't want to jinx it or hold my breath just yet. Once the news has either been validated or invalidated, I will let you guys know!
Is it going to be a boy or a girl!!!!
