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Zon basses - is everything OK ?

#681
IronLung1986 said:
I think this is the correct view generally. And it's also true that no small builder will build a bass without a deposit. The conclusion being, don't buy from small builders. And I say this as someone who has had some good experiences with small builders. Mike Pedulla for one. Great guy and very trustworthy. But so many small builders who were thought to be great guys and very trustworthy have fallen from grace. Even long established ones like Zon. It can happen to anyone. They fall on hard times to where they literally cannot build. The problem is that when it's a small builder and something happens, there's no one else to build your bass. They might have the best intentions and be good people, but the fact is they have your money and you will not get a product. The whole transaction is at the mercy of one man's health, the health of his family, the weather where the shop is located, and God knows what else. It's too much risk imo. I wouldn't do it again.
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Do you consider Fodera to be a small builder? They require a deposit. So does Valenti and I believe Sadowsky does also.
 
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#684
Every builder taking custom orders requires a deposit. otherwise you're just throwing parts and labor at some dudes "wouldn't it be cool if ... you should build it and I'l totally buy it" which is nonsense. Anyone worth their salt learned better than to do that long ago.

There are definitely spec builders who make what they want/think is marketable and offer it for sale upon completion, but I literally dont know of anyone who will take a custom order without a deposit. This goes for small shops like Zon, really small shops (1 man operations) and big custom shops. If someone knows otherwise, I would be curious who is building custom basses on the handshake that the person will "totally pay for it when its done".
 
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#685
J.Wolf said:
Every builder taking custom orders requires a deposit. otherwise you're just throwing parts and labor at some dudes "wouldn't it be cool if ... you should build it and I'l totally buy it" which is nonsense. Anyone worth their salt learned better than to do that long ago.
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+1. Too many flakes out there!
 
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#686
if every builder jumped into gear every time they got a stoney email at 2 am (or even a seemingly legit phone call at 2pm) from a bassist wanting X bass with X many strings and X electronics in X color, without securing their time, energy and materials with a deposit, they'd ALL have gone out of business long ago. You can believe that. but again, if I'm wrong and there are builders/custom shops who will build a bass without a deposit, I'm still waiting to hear who they are. Otherwise I guess we're just complaining about how it is what it is. Which is fine, but not to be confused with a critique about how it should be done differently, or some indictment of their success or business plan. Thats just basically economic gaslighting. lol.

What it boils down to, is that every custom order is a gamble. It's a gamble when the bass will get done, (and I guess whether the bass will get done), just like it's a gamble whether you will like what you ordered. If you're not prepared to make that gamble, buy something off the shelf or used. Make your risk assessment of who you order from based on the company's reputation and delivery history.
 
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#687
J.Wolf said:
if every builder jumped into gear every time they got a stoney email at 2 am (or even a seemingly legit phone call at 2pm) from a bassist wanting X bass with X many strings and X electronics in X color, without securing their time, energy and materials with a deposit, they'd ALL have gone out of business long ago. You can believe that. but again, if I'm wrong and there are builders/custom shops who will build a bass without a deposit, I'm still waiting to hear who they are. Otherwise I guess we're just complaining about how it is what it is. Which is fine, but not to be confused with a critique about how it should be done differently, or some indictment of their success or business plan. Thats just basically economic gaslighting. lol.

What it boils down to, is that every custom order is a gamble. It's a gamble when the bass will get done, (and I guess whether the bass will get done), just like it's a gamble whether you will like what you ordered. If you're not prepared to make that gamble, buy something off the shelf or used. Make your risk assessment of who you order from based on the company's reputation and delivery history.
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Amen to everything you've said. Benavente, Sadowsky, Nordstrand, Martin Keith, Zon all required deposit when I placed a custom order*, and same as you, I'm unaware of any custom shop that doesn't require a deposit. As much as 50% can be required up front. It was 25% for some (including my Zon purchase). Sadowsky was the least painful: just $500 up front (I don't know whether this has changed over the past decade).



*Darrin Huff required 50% up front, but I will not include his name in the same sentence with those other builders.
 
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#688
J.Wolf said:
if every builder jumped into gear every time they got a stoney email at 2 am (or even a seemingly legit phone call at 2pm) from a bassist wanting X bass with X many strings and X electronics in X color, without securing their time, energy and materials with a deposit, they'd ALL have gone out of business long ago. You can believe that. but again, if I'm wrong and there are builders/custom shops who will build a bass without a deposit, I'm still waiting to hear who they are. Otherwise I guess we're just complaining about how it is what it is. Which is fine, but not to be confused with a critique about how it should be done differently, or some indictment of their success or business plan. Thats just basically economic gaslighting. lol.

What it boils down to, is that every custom order is a gamble. It's a gamble when the bass will get done, (and I guess whether the bass will get done), just like it's a gamble whether you will like what you ordered. If you're not prepared to make that gamble, buy something off the shelf or used. Make your risk assessment of who you order from based on the company's reputation and delivery history.
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Agree and I would guess even a large company like the Fender Custom Shop requires a deposit or do they?
 
#690
J.Wolf said:
if every builder jumped into gear every time they got a stoney email at 2 am (or even a seemingly legit phone call at 2pm) from a bassist wanting X bass with X many strings and X electronics in X color, without securing their time, energy and materials with a deposit, they'd ALL have gone out of business long ago.
.
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:roflmao: The equivalent of a booty call?
 
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#698
Hankenstein said:
Do you consider Fodera to be a small builder? They require a deposit. So does Valenti and I believe Sadowsky does also.
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Yea all builders do. It's just a matter of whether you'll get your bass if something happens.

At this point I'm pretty much only interested in standard, stock gear that can be easily obtained, replaced and repaired. To use the Pedulla example again, even the most rock solid custom builders still get old and retire. Who's going to refinish my Pentabuzz when the time comes? Who could replace the proprietary truss rod if it ever needed to be done? It would involve a search for the right repair guy and then trusting THEM to actually do the work and not butcher my bass. It bugs me. It even bugs me that my main bass, a Stingray 2 band, is semi-irreplaceable since they're not made that way anymore. But at least I know that it's a mainstream build with replaceable parts, didn't cost $5k, and new Stingrays of one kind or another can be had pretty readily. Plus Music Man is not going to just vanish if Sterling Ball gets sick and can't come to work.
 
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#699
IronLung1986 said:
At this point I'm pretty much only interested in standard, stock gear that can be easily obtained, replaced and repaired. To use the Pedulla example again, even the most rock solid custom builders still get old and retire. Who's going to refinish my Pentabuzz when the time comes? Who could replace the proprietary truss rod if it ever needed to be done? It would involve a search for the right repair guy and then trusting THEM to actually do the work and not butcher my bass. It bugs me. It even bugs me that my main bass, a Stingray 2 band, is semi-irreplaceable since they're not made that way anymore. But at least I know that it's a mainstream build with replaceable parts, didn't cost $5k, and new Stingrays of one kind or another can be had pretty readily. Plus Music Man is not going to just vanish if Sterling Ball gets sick and can't come to work.
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Everybody has their own psychological limits, but a competent luthier can fix most anything - ever seen acoustic instrument repairs?

And at the end of the day, nothing lasts forever. One of my favorite builders is retiring this year, I just picked up one of his last run of basses. If something breaks, it'll get sorted out. His basses are special, for me any worries about repairs are greatly overshadowed by the joy I'll get playing it. But as I said, everyone has their own limits, and a wise person knows them. I have many (limitations that is). Ymmv.
 
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