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Zoom B3 As Preamp

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#361
Thanks for looking! I think that this thread and how you reply so quickly to everyone is brilliant. Thanks a bunch.

Lost out on the auction but there is another one so will be having a go again tonight. Firt time for me using auction site in Japanese. I am in Japan but cant read the language, but I think can get it this time!
 
#362
andreas_flf said:
Indeed. It seems, however, that amp has a fixed parallel use of the effects loop only and a modification would be required to change this, cf. Invalid Link Removed. In this case I would go into the amp the ordinary way and set it as flat as possible. Two preamps in series shouldn't be that big a problem I would guess.
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve and Andreas. WIll be gigging tonight so will try that and see how it goes, Thanks!
 
#364
Friendly Competition

Even though this post is not completely B3-centric, I hope you will forgive me after reading it.

It is by good fortune that I continue to be enamored with tone gadgets delivered by big brown truck, and with those gadgets not returned for refund, I often find myself wanting to determine which ones sound better than others.

If you have been following this thread for a while, you should know by now that I am an Ampeg guy at heart with a Zoom B3 at my feet. What I failed to mention however is that I typically put all new gadgets, like the B3, through a little in-house competition before discarding the sales receipt and packing material.

With you likely being a Zoom enthusiast, I hope I will not offend by saying that my personal benchmark bass tone is obtained with an Ampeg SVT-7 PRO. Ampeg fanaticism aside, IMHO, the Zoom B3 is quite capable of nailing the feel and tone of my favorite amp and I would like to share my unusual comparison method with you, in hope that you may find it valuable.

Like my SVT-7 PRO, perhaps your favorite amp has an effect loop with an FX MIX knob and a TUNER OUT jack. Through use of these, I will now advise how to connect your B3 or other preamp device in parallel with your amp so that a simple twist of the amp's FX MIX knob will allow for immediate comparison between the two.
  1. Connect a 1/4" patch cord between your amp's TUNER OUT jack and your B3's INPUT jack
  2. Connect a 1/4" patch cord between your B3's L-OUTPUT and your amp's EFFECT RETURN jack
  3. Turn your amp's FX MIX knob to fully DRY (amp is now solo'd)
  4. Apply power to the B3
  5. Turn on the amp and plug bass into front INPUT jack
  6. Play bass and set levels on amp until you are hearing things as expected
  7. Turn amp's FX MIX knob to fully WET (B3 is now solo'd)
  8. Set levels on B3 as a preamp until competitive with the amp sound
  9. Turn amp's FX MIX knob back and forth until satisfied, competing the amp sound vs. B3 sound
Tip: When in competition with your amp, be sure to set the B3 amp model's MIX parameter value to 0

Cheers!
 
#365
CharlieC said:
... snip ...
Like my SVT-7 PRO, perhaps your favorite amp has an effect loop with an FX MIX knob and a TUNER OUT jack. Through use of these, I will now advise how to connect your B3 or other preamp device in parallel with your amp so that a simple twist of the amp's FX MIX knob will allow for immediate comparison between the two.

  1. ... snip ...
Click to expand...


  1. CharlieC, what a great, excellent idea. :) It hasn't occurred to me so far and I have used a switch (DOD Master Switch 225) to accomplish similar comparisons. Though, with a bit less convenience, since I had to switch both the DOD Master Switch as well as the FX loop switch on the amp to make the comparison. My amp is a Trace Elliott AH1000-12. It comes with a great foot switch (6 stomps) where I can bypass or use the effects loop. With your idea I can now do the entire switch in one go, when the amp's effects loop SERIES / PARALLEL switch is set to SERIES (of course).

    Besides, a y-cable (or Y-adapater) between the instrument and the amp and B3, respectively, would of course offer similar convenience. However, I fear splitting the bass' output in such a way may weaken the signal. I am not sure about that (anyone knows for sure?). Using the tuner output is generally safe, since AFAIK most amps buffer that signal and, as in my case, may also amplify it. At least according to the block diagram of my AH1000-12 the gain knob affects also the tuner output.

    What excellent idea, CharlieC. Thanks!
 
#366
Zoom MS-60B

I was finally able to get my hands on Zoom's new MS-60B pedal and to say that I am quite impressed is an understatement.

Boasting the same ZFX-IV DSP effects processor as the B3, the few MS-60B effect models I tested are sonically and functionally identical to their B3 counterparts.

Most surprising to me is that my tests have concluded that the MS-60B is indeed capable of driving a power amp, as in my case, a Crown XLS Drivecore.

The smaller, metal form factor of the MS-60B compared to the B3's makes the MS-60B feel even more solid and stomp-worthy.

In summary, here is how I would describe the MS-60B to those familiar with the B3:

Take the current Zoom B3 v1.0 and then ...

  • Apply the highly-requested, non-existent, v2.0 firmware update:
Support for additional 4th effect model
Ability to disable Auto Save
Ability to pre-configure the tuner Bypass/Mute
​
  • Remove the XLR out
  • Remove the ability to use expression + switch pedals
  • Remove the Looper
  • Remove the Rhythm machine
  • Remove two-thirds of the chassis width and afforded functionality
  • Remove roughly half of the available effect models
  • Remove audio interface capability
  • Remove ability to use Zoom's free Edit&Share software
  • Remove $100 USD from the street price
If this is acceptable to you, I highly recommend a purchase of MS-60B and you, too, will revel in knowing that you can now fit an entire bass rig in your pocket.

If DSP is your thing, Zoom has an absolute winner here.

Cheers!
 
#367
Come on Charlie! Lol!
I'am just starting to understand how the B-3 is going to work for me, opening possibilities I have never considered. I have never used FX on bass, and now I am using different FX and different pre-amp settings for different songs ( I'am in a Dance, Rock and Pop Cover band ) now this! ? So I could use one just for FX and the other for a Pre-Amp! I'am wondering if the MS-60B output signal is sent to the B-3 input and then the signal sent out via the XRL DI, would both signals be sent to the Direct Out? I don't see why it wouldn't but I figured I'd ask.
Good luck with it , I'm sure you'll be posting the great things you discover!

John
 
#368
#372
Zoom ZFX-IV

As you may know, Zoom's ZFX-IV DSP effects processor is the heart of both the B3 and MS-60B, as well as other non-bass Zoom products, and as I previously mentioned, the effect models common between devices are sonically and functionally identical. The ability to have one's favorite tones consistently across multiple devices is a reality, again, provided that you are not averse to the technology or the resulting tones.

zfx_iv.jpg


With this said, despite the B3-specific title of this thread, I will be broadening the scope of my content with respect to "bass devices containing Zoom's ZFX-IV DSP effects processor used as a preamp" and I hope you will continue to sub and contribute.

Cheers!
 
#373
Brothers In Arms

Although I do not plan on this union for my own needs, I believe that others will and could benefit from discussion here.

b3_ms60b.jpg


Depending on the specific application for these devices, the order of them is most worthy of consideration to yield maximum benefit. In keeping with the theme of this thread, the application here will be to use the MS-60B in conjunction with the B3 used as a preamp.

I believe the main reason one would want to use both devices together would be the existing limitation of only 3 chained effect models on the B3 versus 4 on the MS-60B, and the MS-60B's 1-switch design does not offer as much "Live" flexibility as the B3's 3-switch design.

If this were my rig, I would want the B3 to host 3 popular effect stomps and I would relegate the more consistent preamp duties (i.e. amplifier models) to the MS-60B. In my world, stomps are most enjoyed in front of a real amp and not through its effect loop if one were available. With this said, my wiring chain would be from instrument, to B3, to MS-60B, to power amp, all via 1/4" cable. The consequence for this is that now I will need to use an external DI box inserted between the MS-60B and power amp should I need a balanced XLR out, since the B3's XLR will not have the complete sonic picture. (Should this not be acceptable/possible to you then you certainly can, in less-effective arrangement IMHO, order the brothers the other way and use the B3's XLR out.)

Under my device arrangement, I would configure the down-stream MS-60B to be a different amp/cabinet upon each pedal click, as the MS-60B can be programed to cycle through up to 4 different patches, and the up-stream B3 would be treated like 3 independent stomps before the amp that can optionally be swapped-out via B3 patch change.

Regardless of the chosen device ordering, be sure that the output levels from the up-stream device are in the ballpark of "instrument-level" as not to overload the input of the down-stream device, else unwanted distortion may occur.

Cheers!
 
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#376
Johno Dunn said:
CharlieC, I have an MS-60B, and because if this thread I am purging my Nano and going all DSP! I am undecided on whether I should get a B3, or 2 more 60b's! Thoughts?

J!
Click to expand...

Thanks, but please do not pin the purge on me, LOL!

Good question, but this is a tough answer for me at this time because of the unknown status of Zoom's v2.0 firmware update for the B3.

IMHO, a B3 v2.0 would solve everything, as it would most likely provide the 4th effect capability and resolve a few functionality grievances that I see have been addressed in the G3 v2.0 and new MS-60B. If this were the case, I would suggest that you could replace your both your Nano and MS-60B with a single B3 v2.0

In this rare instance, I will remain silent and let others chime in with their thoughts on your question, since I cannot risk being held responsible for all the above :D

Cheers!
 
#379
Johno Dunn said:
Weenie!
Does each foot switch act similar to a 60b? As in 3 FX per switch?
Click to expand...

Short and simple, the way the B3 works is that you specify which of its 100+ effects goes into each of its 3 spots and then those effects can individually be turned on/off with the foot switch below each spot. The grouping of these 3 effects and some other governing settings are then saved as "patches", similar to patches that exist in the MS-60B

:bassist:
 
#380
With that being said, I feel like the 3x60B is a more versatile option. 1 could be set to a switchable effect>comp>amp/pre amp>gate. You could have 4 such patches at easy access. The 2 others could be set to different chains of FX using the LS to switch on/off. Don't really need the looper, and wouldn't use the drum machine.

J!
 
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