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Zoom B3 As Preamp

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#381
Johno Dunn said:
With that being said, I feel like the 3x60B is a more versatile option. 1 could be set to a switchable effect>comp>amp/pre amp>gate. You could have 4 such patches at easy access. The 2 others could be set to different chains of FX using the LS to switch on/off. Don't really need the looper, and wouldn't use the drum machine.

J!
Click to expand...

You cannot go wrong with either 3 x MS-60B or 1 x B3, but ...

Having the 3 effects in one device (B3) will allow you more/better control of switching and managing complete "scenes" of effects via patches rather than the effects existing in separate MS-60B units

Should you run solely with MS-60B's, for now, you will be missing out on 40+ other effect models that the B3 offers over the MS-60B

Good luck!
 
#383
CharlieC said:
Zoom MS-60B

I was finally able to get my hands on Zoom's new MS-60B pedal and to say that I am quite impressed is an understatement.

Boasting the same ZFX-IV DSP effects processor as the B3, the few MS-60B effect models I tested are sonically and functionally identical to their B3 counterparts.

Most surprising to me is that my tests have concluded that the MS-60B is indeed capable of driving a power amp, as in my case, a Crown XLS Drivecore.

The smaller, metal form factor of the MS-60B compared to the B3's makes the MS-60B feel even more solid and stomp-worthy.

In summary, here is how I would describe the MS-60B to those familiar with the B3:

Take the current Zoom B3 v1.0 and then ...

  • Apply the highly-requested, non-existent, v2.0 firmware update:
Support for additional 4th effect model
Ability to disable Auto Save
Ability to pre-configure the tuner Bypass/Mute
​
  • Remove the XLR out
  • Remove the ability to use expression + switch pedals
  • Remove the Looper
  • Remove the Rhythm machine
  • Remove two-thirds of the chassis width and afforded functionality
  • Remove roughly half of the available effect models
  • Remove audio interface capability
  • Remove ability to use Zoom's free Edit&Share software
  • Remove $100 USD from the street price
If this is acceptable to you, I highly recommend a purchase of MS-60B and you, too, will revel in knowing that you can now fit an entire bass rig in your pocket.

If DSP is your thing, Zoom has an absolute winner here.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

;)Also add..
  • Remove AC adapter.. which comes with the B3
  • Remove USB jack and substitute mini USB jack (If it is like the one on some phones I have had :rollno:)
  • Remove the ability to turn multiple effects off and on without scrolling.
 
#385
Levels Revisited

I believe that Zoom engineered the B3 to be another type of stompbox able to play well with traditional stompboxes and other devices, both input and output. I believe they succeeded, as my experience is that it does so, transparently, without the user needing to do anything except connect it up and go. After giving this some thought, I did some further investigation regarding signal levels and the B3, both internal/external levels, and thought I would share my findings here.

When one connects an instrument or other source to the B3's INPUT jack, the B3 is in full control of the signal level that will exit the OUTPUT jack, even if none of the 3 effects in the chain are on, as both TOTAL and GLOBAL LEVEL parameters are in place before the OUTPUT jack.

To best ensure "what goes in is what comes out", my tests indicate one should set both TOTAL and GLOBAL LEVEL parameters to 100 when no effects are enabled in the chain. This could be considered the B3's best attempt at "buffered bypass" operation. Values both greater than 100 or less than 100 are also assignable as to provide a way to boost or cut LEVEL in both areas.

At quick glance, I also noticed that most/all effect models have a LEVEL parameter of their own and I believe values of 100 could be considered each effect's "unity gain" setting. Values both greater than 100 or less than 100 are also assignable as to provide a way to boost or cut each effect's LEVEL.

As you can see from this diagram, many places exist where LEVEL can change:

INPUT --> EFX 1 LEVEL --> EFX 2 LEVEL --> EFX 3 LEVEL --> TOTAL LEVEL --> GLOBAL LEVEL --> OUTPUT

Despite that Zoom specs rate the B3's maximum output level to be a healthy +5dBm (where 0dBm = 0.775Vrms), Zoom has not equipped the B3 with any means to alert the user to clipping should it occur along the way at any stage in the chain. Clipping can even occur at the INPUT jack buffer should the incoming signal be too hot. For this type of monitoring one is left to simply use good judgement and their ears. In turn, one also needs to ensure that the signal leaving the OUTPUT jack is not clipping the input of the next external device.

Zoom engineers went to lengths to ensure successful plug-and-play operation with the B3, but for best results one might want to keep an ear on things going in, getting processed by DSP, and then coming out ;)

Cheers!
 
#386
Power In Simplicity

The MS-60B may not have all of the effects and extras as the B3, but in simplicity lies power, especially in the signal chain.

As mentioned in a previous post, the B3's signal chain is ...

INPUT --> EFX 1 --> EFX 2 --> EFX 3 --> TOTAL --> GLOBAL --> OUTPUT

... and the more streamlined MS-60B signal chain is:

INPUT --> EFX 1 --> EFX 2 --> EFX 3 --> EFX 4 --> OUTPUT

By eliminating the TOTAL and GLOBAL elements, Zoom has made the MS-60B more like 4 traditional stompboxes in series, both in theory and in operation.

What is lost compared to the B3 in this regard is the ease in ability to program a given patch to be louder or less loud than others, the ability to blend a little direct bass signal along with a patch, and the ability to make all patches louder or less loud globally.

For my needs, I would prefer the simpler operating model also on the B3, but I do believe it is there to stay on that product.
 
#387
Through my own A/B testing, I found that the EFX Level at 75 felt closer to unity. For a while I had global and total dialed down to about 50% but changed them both to 100 (not percent) after changing my setup slightly.

Thanks again for all your investigation and sharing. Perhaps one day we will see a B5 and it'll all be over.;)
 
#388
Gain Structure

In a recent post I revisited the topic of levels, exposed the multiple LEVEL parameters present within the internal signal chain, and hope it was found useful.

In a perfect world, setting all effect LEVEL parameters to 100 would result in unity gain throughout the entire chain, but unfortunately this is not the case with all effects, particularly in the case of the amplifier models.

b3_amps.jpg


Nearly every amplifier model has a GAIN parameter in addition to LEVEL, and depending on where the model is placed, a poor GAIN-to-LEVEL ratio could spoil things.

In short, the level exiting an amplifier model effect should be able to play nicely with whatever internal effect may follow next. Should no internal effect follow then it should play nicely with any TOTAL/GLOBAL levels that may exist. The desired end-result is that the OUTPUT jack should produce a non-distorted signal, with a signal level that supports whatever device OUTPUT connects to.

With the very forgiving internal headroom in both the B3 and MS-60B, chances are that not following any of the above advice will still produce satisfactory results, but should you want to fine-tune your rig, below are my tips for effective gain structure on an amplifier model.

With only the amplifier model enabled in your chain ...

  1. Set GAIN as desired
  2. Set LEVEL to 60 and play a few notes
  3. Turn off amp model, play again and notice the level change
  4. Turn on amp model, boost/cut LEVEL until similar to level with model off
  5. Repeat steps 3 and 4 as necessary
Cheers!
 
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#389
Balanced Output

Although perhaps not the best quality, the B3 features a very serviceable, balanced XLR out with ground lift, but the MS-60B does not.

Regardless, both devices may be used with an external direct box, to provide balanced XLR output.

di_boxes.jpg


  1. Connect a 1/4" cable from B3 or MS-60B's L/OUTPUT jack to the INPUT on the DI box
  2. Connect a 1/4" cable from the DI box's OUT or THRU jack to your amplifier or next device
  3. The DI box and its XLR output jack are now ready for use
Cheers!
 
#390
The Sound Of Silence

In recent years and unknown to me, I have forever been spoiled by the sound of silence.

In hindsight, I am thankful for this because if it were an option offered to me, I would have quickly declined.

In a band setting or public area, not so much, but in a quiet room or studio is where rig silence is golden.

znr_fan.jpg


For those who have not experienced Class D amplifier technology, besides shedding pounds off your rig, it also makes for a cool running amp. Some of the best designs available today are able to accomplish heat dissipation with near-silent exhaust fans. Some so silent that one needs to put a hand over the its vent to determine if it is blowing. The Crown XLS Drivecore is a fine example of an amplifier that runs as quietly when it is on as when its power switch is off.

Once the amplifier is silenced, one will soon after begin noticing every hiss, hum, and zipper present in the signal from instrument pickups, effects, and the preamp section itself. Thankfully, Zoom has included a single, fantastic noise reduction effect in both the B3 and MS-60B devices. Even with its default settings, the ZNR effect works transparent magic when placed first in the signal chain. As if the dead-silence between notes alone was not enough, one should notice a significant increase in perceived playing dynamics.

Even if a new amplifier is not in one's immediate future, the ZNR effect is highly worth a listen.

Cheers!
 
#395
mjmeche said:
On mine the xlr is distorted. And the levels aren't that high. I resorted to using a DI box.
Click to expand...

I believe the distortion on your XLR was/is caused by running levels too hot inside the B3. I recently posted about "levels" and "gain structure" and perhaps that information can be of help to you.

In the short term, however, using an external DI is a great alternative.
 
#398
I posted this in the amps section but figured that the topic is also is the B3 and use as a pre amp thought that I would stick it in here. I took the plunge on a power amp.

I decided to go down the power amp road after reading Charlie Cs thread on using the B3 as a pre amp (great thread).
I managed to get my hands on a Crown XLS 802. I made up the output cables using Speakon conectors for bridging and thought that once the amp arrives I would be good to go.

Now looks like this particular power amp only has XLR conectors for the input. Here come the questions!

1/ Can I run the power amp using the balanced XLR from the B3 to the crown?

2/ Can I put use a 1/4 jack to XLR microphone wire from the B3 to the crown?

3/ Can I run B3 XLR to Crown XLR and B3 1/4 to a DI box?

I am a total newbie with the power amp/pre amp set up, any input will be greatly appreciated!!

If in the future I decided to go for a rack pre amp how do you contect the pre amp to the Crown as all of the preamps I found diagrams of had all had 1/4 jacks for output.

Many thanks in advance.
 
#399
My quick reply to all of your three questions is yes. However, whether any of those are a recommended route to go is another question. What might also be helpful, if you would explain why you wish to have two outputs at the same time.

I do not own a Crown power amp and do not even know much about its inputs so that I rather leave this to CharlieC who knows this device in and out.
 
#400
Noddy Boulder said:
I posted this in the amps section but figured that the topic is also is the B3 and use as a pre amp thought that I would stick it in here. I took the plunge on a power amp.

I decided to go down the power amp road after reading Charlie Cs thread on using the B3 as a pre amp (great thread).
I managed to get my hands on a Crown XLS 802. I made up the output cables using Speakon conectors for bridging and thought that once the amp arrives I would be good to go.

Now looks like this particular power amp only has XLR conectors for the input. Here come the questions!

1/ Can I run the power amp using the balanced XLR from the B3 to the crown?

2/ Can I put use a 1/4 jack to XLR microphone wire from the B3 to the crown?

3/ Can I run B3 XLR to Crown XLR and B3 1/4 to a DI box?

I am a total newbie with the power amp/pre amp set up, any input will be greatly appreciated!!

If in the future I decided to go for a rack pre amp how do you contect the pre amp to the Crown as all of the preamps I found diagrams of had all had 1/4 jacks for output.

Many thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

As you have seen, some older series power amps like the XLS 802 have only balanced XLR inputs. From what I remember of that model, they were also capable of bridge mono operation as long as you wired your Speakon connectors accordingly and set the physical "mode" switch on the rear of the amp to BRIDGE. That amp is an absolute workhorse, but be advised that it is very heavy and features a serious cooling fan.

To hook up your B3 to the XLS 802 you will need to make/purchase a single 1/4" female to XLR male adapter. This adapter would live directly on the Channel-1 XLR input jack behind the amp, giving you the unbalanced 1/4" jack it is missing. With this short 3" adapter you can then use any length of normal 1/4" cable from the B3's 1/4" L-OUTPUT jack to the amp.

Invalid Link Removed

Alternatively you could also make/purchase a 1/4" male to XLR male cable in the length you need to run from the B3 to the amp instead of using an adapter.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/rapco-horizon-hi-z-1-4-male-xlr-male-cable

Both the adapter and cable approaches simply gender-bend the connection from 1/4" to XLR and in doing so, the input is then down-graded from balanced to unbalanced.

For a balanced XLR out feed to a mixer/FOH, you can then use the XLR out built into the B3 without the need to use/purchase an external DI box.

Cheers!
 
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