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2 112 Cabs vs 1 410 Cab

#42
pepj said:
And you are saying that running 500w into the OP cabs wouldn't be 'abuse' in the eyes of the maker. And that tests would prove that.

Ok...
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Nope, the cabinets are rated for 300 watts RMS each, so provided that reasonable common sense and expectations are used I wouldn't expect any problems.

Not sure why you are falling on this sword either?
 
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#43
2x12’s is the Goldilocks stack in my experience. Loud enough for big stages, small enough for tiny stages. I am also a fan of running the cabs vertically to minimize footprint and get the sound closer to my ears. This comes in handy on those tight stages where you can’t be too loud, helps you keep yourself in check better than a 4x10 booming by your knees.

It is nice to have options though! I have multiple cabs spread around in band mates practice spaces. It is a real treat to just to haul a head and a bass to rehearsal.
 
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#46
pepj said:
And I'm telling the OP that a 500w amp running them is dangerous territory.
There is no sword.
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Ok, maybe I am missing your logic but how is running a 500 watt rms (at 4 ohm) amp with a 600 watt (4 ohm) load “dangerous territory”?

My general (and conservative) rule of thumb is that matching the rms power of an amp with the rms power of the speaker is generally safe. In this case, the speaker’s power handling is greater than the amp which is generally even safer.
 
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#48
Generally isn't absolute and you need to be wary.
What is distorting, pedals, amp and speakers or is the environment not condusive to hearing any of those potential triggers.
 
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#49
pepj said:
Generally isn't absolute and you need to be wary.
What is distorting, pedals, amp and speakers or is the environment not condusive to hearing any of those potential triggers.
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Ok, I give up. Nothing is absolute, which is why common sense and reasonable expectations were mentioned multiple times.
 
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#53
MarkA said:
Well, since you've got the 410 and just snagged (Waiting on delivery, I guess?) the two 112s, you'll soon be able to tell us (most of us -- me, certainly) better than we could tell you. ;-)

That said, it depends on the sensitivity (decibels per watt at a given distance - usually measured at 1 meter) and, to some extent, the voicing of each cab (if one cab is hotter in the mids, say, it might be perceived as louder in a mix).

Rule of thumb (if I remember rightly) is that doubling power will get you an extra 3 dB, assuming the cab(s) will handle the power gracefully. Stacking two identical cabs will get you an extra 3 dB overall (relative to a single cab) plus some more in the lows due to coupling at longer wavelengths.

Hypothetical situation: You've got two 8 Ohm 112s with sensitivities of 95 dB/W/m, each and an 8 Ohm 410 with a sensitivity of 101 dB/W/m, to run with a solid state head that makes 1 Watt at 8 Ohms and 2 Watts at 4 Ohms (assume cabs will handle the power just fine ;-)).
  • The 8 Ohm 410 will get 1 Watt of power -- with that much juice, volume at one meter will be 101 dB (maybe as some sort of weighted average, but that's beyond the scope of this example, here).
  • The two 8 Ohm twelves, stacked, will have a combined overall sensitivity of 98 dB/W/m. The stack will get twice as much power as the 410 (2 Watts vs. 1), for another 3 dB, yielding 101 dB at one meter -- same as the 410.
Now, the two twelves will pick up another few dB in the lows from coupling, but the 10s in the 410 cab will likely do the same (they don't know if they're in one cab or two, just how close they are to each other) and we don't know how the cabs are voiced to start, so I'd call that a wash until I got to hear them or got better data another way.

As far as your real (not hypothetical) cabs go, if you can track down their sensitivity specs, you should be able to do the above calculation pretty easily -- of course, playing the two setups back to back (maybe at a rehearsal!) will give you information that might be less easily quantifiable but, I'd guess, ultimately, more meaningful.

As @SJan3 said, only you will be able to say which you like better and which works better for you in a given setting.

Hope you dig your new setup. Please report back with your impressions!
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What an excellent response!!!!
 
#54
agedhorse said:
The 112 will be fine, it will receive 250W and so will the 410. How it sounds is subjective however.
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I just picked up a used Hydrive HX410 because I liked the sound of the Hydrive HD112.
I’m going to test the 112 on top of the 410.
My 112 has the 4/8 ohm selector switch and the 410 is 8ohms. I purchased the Bugera MOSFET
Model and the Two notes Revolt. I happy with the sound from my current setup:
Warwick Pro115 with the Hydrive HD112 on top.
After I test…. I’ll be back too!!!!
 

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#55
TommyLuptak said:
What an excellent response!!!!
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Thank you -- much of it is stuff that I picked up from more experienced posters here (and then actually saw applied) over the years, so a lot of the credit for it goes to them.
TommyLuptak said:
I just picked up a used Hydrive HX410 because I liked the sound of the Hydrive HD112.
I’m going to test the 112 on top of the 410.
My 112 has the 4/8 ohm selector switch and the 410 is 8ohms. I purchased the Bugera MOSFET
Model and the Two notes Revolt. I happy with the sound from my current setup:
Warwick Pro115 with the Hydrive HD112 on top.
After I test…. I’ll be back too!!!!
Click to expand...
You probably already know, but you'd want the switch on the 112 in the "8 Ohms" position in this case.

Good luck - have fun!
 
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#58
I run a 900 watt Genz Benz Shuttlemax 9.2 into a Genz Benz Uber Bass 2x12. I've had this setup for 13 years and never had any issues. I don't run extreme eq settings. I've played plenty of what i would call loud gigs. When I bought this rig I didn't have a clue about how to properly match amps and cabs. A 900 watt head into a 600 watt cab isn't necessarily a recipe for disaster. Let your ears be your guide.
 
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#59
Kenny056 said:
I run a 900 watt Genz Benz Shuttlemax 9.2 into a Genz Benz Uber Bass 2x12. I've had this setup for 13 years and never had any issues. I don't run extreme eq settings. I've played plenty of what i would call loud gigs. When I bought this rig I didn't have a clue about how to properly match amps and cabs. A 900 watt head into a 600 watt cab isn't necessarily a recipe for disaster. Let your ears be your guide.
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The Uber 212 was also conservatively rated, and the ShuttleMax has a HPF built in. Both of those factors improved the reliability when driven hard.
 
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#60
agedhorse said:
Ok, you win.
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When I see a thread asking for amp/cab advice, and agedhorse has posted in said thread, I immediately scroll to Andy’s post to begin the read. I learned quite a while back to appreciate his expert advice and try to learn from it. I hope people on this board realize the gift that agedhorse gives us by his participation here!
 
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