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2013 Ampeg V-4B 100W Reissue Pt2
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
I do see what Hodgy is saying. The chances of getting 3 failing amps is so low they want to send it out to the tech to make sure it is nothing on your end with the other being sent straight to Ampeg for inspection. Plus if it is something like a loose tube it would be faster for the tech to fix it then repeat the process of sending you another amp.
Again, what about the failed amp at Sweerwater? That wasnt at my end. Same batch as my first two defective amps came in. The tubes were not unseated. I, and I assume the Sweetwater staff, both know enough to check that right away. Hodgy has been fine through this. i'm just not a fan of "policy" right now.
Well, unfortunately no-one is willing to pay 2-4X the price for the kind of service we got on stuff back in the pre-China days. If you want that buy an American-made boutique 
. OTOH I paid less than half what you did for a Bugera SVT clone that's been perfect 
except for being stoopid heavy . I sure wish Bugera made a V4B clone 
.
. OTOH I paid less than half what you did for a Bugera SVT clone that's been perfect except for being stoopid heavy . I sure wish Bugera made a V4B clone .
I think it's more figuring out what the issue was as quick as possible so they can begin checking current stock/production/qc procedures to make sure the issue doesn't proliferate more than it has. It's possible all the amps you got came from the same batch/production run so for them the priority is probably ensuring they can stem the flow if there is one.
Not necessarily the most helpful thing for you, but I can understand the perspective from an organizational standpoint. I would certainly be equally dissatisfied if I were in your position.
So Ive had a couple days with my V4B and heres my take on it...
I had an original V4B (magnavox era) that was my main gigging/rehearsal amp for years. I sadly let it go about two years ago, but I would call myself "very familiar" with it and have a very clear memory of how it sounded in comparison to other amps I have. That being said.... I think the new reissue is pretty darn good. Its WAAAAAY better at sticking close to the original than the V4BH did by a long shot. There are however some minor differences. Some are positives for me, some are negatives, some are just "different".
The Positive first:
The Overdrive on this is much smoother in its transition from clean to OD. On my original amp there was a VERY narrow spot on the dial for me when I played live. I was in a rather loud band and it seemed at 11:30 on the volume i was JUST loud enough, and at 11:45 I was in full on grinding overdrive. there was no subtlety. It was all or nothing and it was a drastic grindy drive. With the reissue there is a slow onset from clean, to a little dirty when i dig in or hit a harder low note, to getting dirty, to getting DIIIIIRRRRRRRRTTTTYYYY!. So I like this..
The Negative: I think this is directly related to what I think is the cause of the positive change in the overdrive, but I dont know enough about electrical engineering to know for sure, but Ill explain as I go. My vintage V4B had a bit more "heft" or "authority" in each note. It felt REAL BALLSY. The new isnt as much. Its in the ballpark, but its definitely noticeable. My guess is that somewhere in the power section of the original was a bit more current, or 'gain' that really sauced up the output in a BIG 3-D kind of way. Maybe some of the more EE oriented guys could answer or explain this. Like I said, its not drastic, but its noticable. My original roared like a dragon, this one is more of a lion....Still impressive, but not '6tons of scaly fire breathing' impressive. ...well maybe this one's a 4 ton dragon. ;-) However, I think this difference is what also causes the change in the nature of the overdrive transition, and for me, its a fair trade off.
The Differences: The EQ seems a little different. It sounds very v4b-ish, but there is definitely more bass when its being set 'flat'. I also find myself cutting the treble and finessing the mids, when my vintage stayed @ noon on all dials. this could obviously to be a difference in tube brand and model..or....who knows.
There also seems to be a bit more tube sag when you overdrive. Less grinding full throttle roar and more sag with darker breakup.
these arent complaints. just noting the difference I'm experiencing. overall I'd say good job and a damn cool amp!
I had an original V4B (magnavox era) that was my main gigging/rehearsal amp for years. I sadly let it go about two years ago, but I would call myself "very familiar" with it and have a very clear memory of how it sounded in comparison to other amps I have. That being said.... I think the new reissue is pretty darn good. Its WAAAAAY better at sticking close to the original than the V4BH did by a long shot. There are however some minor differences. Some are positives for me, some are negatives, some are just "different".
The Positive first:
The Overdrive on this is much smoother in its transition from clean to OD. On my original amp there was a VERY narrow spot on the dial for me when I played live. I was in a rather loud band and it seemed at 11:30 on the volume i was JUST loud enough, and at 11:45 I was in full on grinding overdrive. there was no subtlety. It was all or nothing and it was a drastic grindy drive. With the reissue there is a slow onset from clean, to a little dirty when i dig in or hit a harder low note, to getting dirty, to getting DIIIIIRRRRRRRRTTTTYYYY!. So I like this..
The Negative: I think this is directly related to what I think is the cause of the positive change in the overdrive, but I dont know enough about electrical engineering to know for sure, but Ill explain as I go. My vintage V4B had a bit more "heft" or "authority" in each note. It felt REAL BALLSY. The new isnt as much. Its in the ballpark, but its definitely noticeable. My guess is that somewhere in the power section of the original was a bit more current, or 'gain' that really sauced up the output in a BIG 3-D kind of way. Maybe some of the more EE oriented guys could answer or explain this. Like I said, its not drastic, but its noticable. My original roared like a dragon, this one is more of a lion....Still impressive, but not '6tons of scaly fire breathing' impressive. ...well maybe this one's a 4 ton dragon. ;-) However, I think this difference is what also causes the change in the nature of the overdrive transition, and for me, its a fair trade off.
The Differences: The EQ seems a little different. It sounds very v4b-ish, but there is definitely more bass when its being set 'flat'. I also find myself cutting the treble and finessing the mids, when my vintage stayed @ noon on all dials. this could obviously to be a difference in tube brand and model..or....who knows.
There also seems to be a bit more tube sag when you overdrive. Less grinding full throttle roar and more sag with darker breakup.
these arent complaints. just noting the difference I'm experiencing. overall I'd say good job and a damn cool amp!
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I get all this. However, are you going to do it at the expense of the customer? I'm a reasonable guy. I wasn't asking for a free SVT or anything. I wanted to do one of two things, and either would have made me happy. Either ship both defective heads back to Ampeg and get a refund, or ship me a working head in a reasonable amount of time. I feel both were reasonable requests to keep a customer happy, and both were denied. The initial request from them was for ME to take the amp to an authorized service center, over 2 hours away. Only after I complained did they offer to pick up the shipping. Not good CS IMHO. Again, I have no complaint about Hodgy. He has been cool during this whole thing.
I had a similar thing going on with my current V4. I had one a few years back that had been modded for 6550s. It had a nice heft. Sounded really good, but the opportunity to trade it for a similar vintage SVT came up and I jumped on it. I picked up another V4 earlier this year and it was a little too thin for me. Didn't have the same heft. I swapped out the preamp tube for an old RCA that I had laying around and it really brought back the girth of the bass that I was missing. The V4 in general seems to be a good platform for tube rolling, it responds really clearly to changes. Could also just be the tubes I was swapping in this versus other amps. Either way, I'd say try swapping around some preamp tubes for the stock JJ's and see if it helps out a bit.
The EQ is a little different IIRC. I think the mid-frequencies are the SVT/V4BH type 220/800/3K where as the vintage was 300/1000/3K. The overall voicing/gain character may be slightly different like you said, that could be it, but if the mid-centers aren't the same that might be what you're hearing.
In addition to what Corey said, the V4BR is an SVT preamp combined with a 100W power amp. So if you are used to an SVT pre, you'll feel right at home with this amp.
Even if you had two identical amps, you could notice a difference between them due to the tolerances in the parts.
Power tubes do matter, so does their bias. You can have early average or late onset of distortion power tube sets. They really do perform differently in terms of headroom and distortion.
Despite what some people say, size does matter. There are hefty transformers in the vintage amp. More iron is better when it comes to low end distortion and clarity. The vintage amp puts out a bit more power which helps with the quality of the tone.
The are both really nice amps. Just a bit different. The big advantage of a new one is that it doesn't have any issues that a vintage amp may have. But a vintage amp performing up to spec is something very special.
Even if you had two identical amps, you could notice a difference between them due to the tolerances in the parts.
Power tubes do matter, so does their bias. You can have early average or late onset of distortion power tube sets. They really do perform differently in terms of headroom and distortion.
Despite what some people say, size does matter. There are hefty transformers in the vintage amp. More iron is better when it comes to low end distortion and clarity. The vintage amp puts out a bit more power which helps with the quality of the tone.
The are both really nice amps. Just a bit different. The big advantage of a new one is that it doesn't have any issues that a vintage amp may have. But a vintage amp performing up to spec is something very special.
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I'd be surprised if they weren't working on one.Well, unfortunately no-one is willing to pay 2-4X the price for the kind of service we got on stuff back in the pre-China days. If you want that buy an American-made boutique
I do have a Bugera 1960 Infinium (Plexi/Superbass clone) that I need to play with some more. If you understand the weird Fender style EQ you can get it to sound OK and I should try some 6L6's in it to get a more Fender/Ampeg tone (stock are EL34's). I also have a Pignose BV100 (V4B clone) but it is the combo version and too heavy for my tastes - I need to cut the cab part off one of these days...
I got mine back from the tech, who happens to be particularly well-regarded. The new tubes- Winged C's- are in it. It sounds much better, and the very annoying ringing tube is gone. However, there are little jingles. They don't happen all the time like the other one did, but they're clearly tubes. I suppose I will just ignore it, as I'm not sure how much jingling to expect with an all-tube bass head. The last one I owned was a Sunn Model T and it had more rattles than a snake pit.
I suppose they could be preamp tubes that might rattle a bit at certain times, given the certain vibrations of different notes and so forth.
Not a bad amp for the price, I guess. The 212 is a great little cab, too.
I suppose they could be preamp tubes that might rattle a bit at certain times, given the certain vibrations of different notes and so forth.
Not a bad amp for the price, I guess. The 212 is a great little cab, too.
SirMjac28
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion
That's good to hear because I want Winged C's in mine as well and it could very well be the preamp or driver tubes.
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Yeah, that's what occurred to me, too. And the Winged C's are noticeably clearer. The JJs had a lot more grit, as they're supposed to, I guess. I will say that anybody with JJs which aren't problematic, might as well keep them. It's not as if you HAVE to change the tubes, they do have their own charm. I just figure usually, if I'm going to make a change, it might as well be an upgrade.
Anyway, it is what it is. I like things that are funky, anyway.
Anyway, it is what it is. I like things that are funky, anyway.
SirMjac28
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion
I'm not a huge JJ fan but they sound good in this amp and I don't plan on changing them until something happens it's good to hear what the Winged C's will sound like I love clear and I don't like pushing my amp into overdrive I would rather use a pedal.
IME a 100 watt tube amp isn't going to be clean keeping up with a drummer - you need an SVT for that. I sold my Magnavox V4B back around 1981 because of that
.
SirMjac28
Patiently Waiting For The Next British Invasion
I totally agree my V4B is home use only but I think you could use it depending on how skilled your drummer was and if they are able to control their volume.IME a 100 watt tube amp isn't going to be clean keeping up with a drummer - you need an SVT for that. I sold my Magnavox V4B back around 1981 because of that
I intend to use mine for the house, small gigs and those which for whatever reason don't necessitate the moving of an 810 cab, which under some circumstances makes me empathize with the builders of the pyramids. I would like a Heritage SVT at some point, but for the time being, this is a pretty great little rig.
Its the svt preamp?? I thought it was supposed to be the same design/signal path as the original based on a 71.
How does one go about finding "late onset" tubes? Is there a rating to ask for?
