Double Bass 2022 Spirocore Challenge

[ablumley]

Thanks @TroyK ... I had seen this earlier but was a bit confused by wording of this post (taken from another concurrent spirocore thread):

As it works out due to the physics of string making, there is also a gauge difference between the 3885 series and the S42 series; 3885 series strings are slightly thicker than the equivalent tension in S42 strings.

 

[TroyK]

I don't know what to tell you about that. I measured them with a good set of calipers. I have a set of S42 Mittel too, but I think for accurate measures, they need to be under tension.

I could measure the G, because it's on my bass with the 3885 Which set, but subjectively, it feels about as much thicker as indicated.

 

[Don Hergert]

Hmmm, maybe I got it backwards between S42 and 3885. But I think the physics is that shorter strings need more mass to produce the same pitch at the same tension, so they need to be thicker. But @DoubleMIDI is the real string physics theory expert, I'm just a science hack who likes to play DB.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Thanks @TroyK ... I had seen this earlier but was a bit confused by wording of this post (taken from another concurrent spirocore thread):

What he's saying is that 3/4 Weichs are thicker than 4/4 Weichs.

The idea is that the 3885 strings on a 3/4 bass will have the same tension as the S42 strings on a 4/4 bass. The physics part boils down to this: equal tension + equal pitch + shorter length = heavier string.

 

[TroyK]

Yes, 3885 Weichs have larger diameters than S42 Weichs. I've used both and we have the diameters on the post I shared.

I'm not a physics guy. Tension and stiffness are more difficult to measure and talk about, but diameter is not. I perceive, from my own experience that tension goes up with gauge on Spirocores as well, which conforms to the data that we have.

 

[ablumley]

What he's saying is that 3/4 Weichs are thicker than 4/4 Weichs.

Understood. Thanks. I was thinking about a different equivalence: that 3985 weichs are almost the same tensions as 3986 mittels strung on a 3/4 bass.

 

[TroyK]

I'm lost, but this is my best answer

Thomastik String Gauges

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Understood. Thanks. I was thinking about a different equivalence: that 3985 weichs are almost the same tensions as 3986 mittels strung on a 3/4 bass.

3885W Weichs and S42 Mittels should be pretty close on the same bass, yes. As Troy's post #500 shows, the two sets are very similar in gauges.

It's difficult to find any of this info outside of this forum ... My takeaway is that most people don't care and/or just try things until they find what works for their bass, fingers, playing environment, etc.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

I am still in the game. A bit Weich-curious, but still loving the Mittels. This challenge has been great for steering my attention away from the gear and back on to the music and technique.

 

[ablumley]

I'm lost, but this is my best answer

Thomastik String Gauges

Thanks. Already checked that thread out as well.

Hopefully I didn't lose or confuse anyone because I referred to the fifths tuning sets (3985/3986) using their official numerical designations (instead of using 3885/S42 for fourths and fifths interchangeably).

 

[DoubleMIDI]

You might want to have a look into my Dropbox. Link in string sticky.

You also find the fifth Spiros there.

Diameter is not important (but in the same string family it often relates to mass), but mass per length unit is.

Exact scaling is often not possible because the winding wires are only available in certain diameters from the suppliers.

 

[ablumley]

@DoubleMIDI your comparative string spreadsheet is pure gold. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I asked specifically about string diameters because the treble A string in the 4/4 Mittel Red Mitchell set can feel like a cheese slicer under the left hand finger tips with higher string height. I dealt with this by lowering the bridge adjusters a bit but wondered if there was a thicker variant with the same tension available.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

@DoubleMIDI

I asked specifically about string diameters because the treble A string in the 4/4 Mittel Red Mitchell set can feel like a cheese slicer under the left hand finger tips with higher string height. I dealt with this by lowering the bridge adjusters a bit but wondered if there was a thicker variant with the same tension available.

Don’t tell me, I play a high C string…

The only way to get a thicker string with the same tension and pitch is less mass density. That means it could not be constructed in the same way as a Spirocore. Either more damping material which gets you a short sustain string or string material with a lower density in core and/or windings which means synthetic/silk/gut core and/or synthetic windings.
Metal with less mass like Aluminium for the winding is also possible but doesn’t raise the diameter a lot.

The problem is that none of them sound like a Spirocore. The closest larger diameter high C to a Spirocore that I found was a now discontinued Compas 180, a prototype New Braided/Polychrome and with less good pizz sustain down the fingerboard an Obligato.

You may need to use a mixed set with metal wound gut or synthetic/silk core on the higher strings and Spirocore on the lower ones. You need to find for yourself where you want to make the transition.

It’s hard with fifth tuning as there are just a few sets. You might want to check the Obligato fifth for the A if a lower tension Spirocore doesn’t work for you.

Another possibility is getting the A from a solo set and the D, if needed, from an orchestral one.

But the first thing to try is to turn the adjusters down, but if this is not enough, lower tension or lower density core would be the way to go.

In the baen.tamu.edu file in my Dropbox are a lot of diameters for strings but not for all of them.

 

[ablumley]

Great. I'll check out that file.

The Obligato A D paired with Spiro G C is pretty common in the fifths world (at least in my experience). I recently played a bass strung up like this. Personally I'm just not a big fan of the Obligatos. They didn't last very long for me when I used them years ago and I actually prefer the overtone-rich resonance and the sustain of the Spirocores. They bow amazingly as well, after years of playing on gut. Dropping the bridge a little hasn't been the end of the world for my chops either... A high C must really cut with a higher string height. Power to you!

 

[Notaluthier]

Check out how young and hip I am, creating an internet challenge!

I had an idea from a discussion going on in the Spirocores thread and thought I would propose a challenge here and see if anyone was game.

Put Spirocores on for a year without trying anything else.


Here are the rules I propose, negotiable until the challenge starts Jan 1, 2022:
To be eligible:

• You can't have had a full set of Spirocores on for every month of 2021.
  
• You have to disclose if you have more than one bass and we'll have to make a ruling if you switch basses mid-year or if you aren't using your Spirocore bass.

To play:

• You have to start the year with a full set of Spirocores (no guest G string) and commit to them for the year.
• You can change or even mix gauges as long as all of the strings are Spirocores.
• You can replace your old Spirocores with newer or different Spirocores.
• But, no trying anything else (on your bass) for even one gig. You may not, for any period of time, have a string on your bass that isn't a Spirocore.
  
• If you slip, you have to self-report and you're out, but how long you made it will be on record.

If only one person makes it to the end of the year, I will personally send them a prize. If more than one person makes it, I think they should win some kind of a signature tag or club#.

I’m in, I found out Edgar Meyer uses spiros so I was going to try anyways.

 

[Notaluthier]

I’m in, I found out Edgar Meyer uses spiros so I was going to try anyways.

Does anyone know a low B that sounds/feels like a spiro?

 

[AGCurry]

Does anyone know a low B that sounds/feels like a spiro?

Thomastik makes the low-B Spirocore. How much closer do you need to get than that?

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Does anyone know a low B that sounds/feels like a spiro?

I will boldly suggest the Thomastik Spirocore S41 (4/4) or 3885,7 (3/4) low B strings (aka "H2" in the original German).

 

[Sean Riddle]

Does anyone know a low B that sounds/feels like a spiro?

Another for a Spirocore Mittel B! If you're setup is good, that B string is the embodiment of the sound of doom. It's an epic feeling.

 

[GlenParks]

@Notaluthier

Alex Webster on the p bass. love it.