412 vs 2x15 vs the fridge

[Vince Klortho]

You're obviously a fEARful fan, but their 2x15's that I've seen have two 6" drivers as well, as to not lose the mid articulation

There is also the Dually with no 6" drivers and without a tweeter or with one.

Obviously no two cabs are the same, but generally speaking you're going to get more volume out of a 2x12 than a single 15", and more volume out of 4x10 than a 2x12; it's a simple matter of speaker surface area.

It is a matter of speaker surface area AND excursion, the product of which is displacement and it really isn't that simple. Speaker excursion values vary so widely that you can not speak generally about the volume from different cabinets. For example, I have compiled a list of specifications of various cabinets from different companies and the sensitivity values for 4x10 cabinets range 98 to 103dB. For 1x15 cabinets it ranges from 96 to 99.5dB. Those are rather wide ranges I think. Far too wide to generalize about.

 

[Vince Klortho]

Check out the Duallys in this thread. They have most of the accoutrements of the fridge which makes them rather easy to move around and they are much lighter. Don't worry - the color and grills are customizable.

 

[agreatheight]

I have played a fair number of big cabs and I have to say that, yep, you can't just generalize based on format and need to judge each on its own merits. That, and some cabs play better with some heads, lol. Good luck.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Check out the Duallys in this thread. They have most of the accoutrements of the fridge which makes them rather easy to move around and they are much lighter. Don't worry - the color and grills are customizable.

Doesnt hurt that they only weigh 70 pounds. Thats with out light weight wood and hardware. One of the greenboy builders just finished a Dually that was in the low 50's.

 

[MDBass]

I'm not sure why you're acting so combatively.

The OP asked a very generalized question, which will naturally generate a lot of very generalized answers; I agree that every cab sounds different, and everyone's answers will be colored by personal experience.

A lot of things other than driver size affect the sound of a cabinet, but claiming that you can't make generalized comparisons between the inherent sonic qualities of the actual driver sizes themselves is simply incorrect.

15's move more slowly and have more bottom than 10's, which is why no one makes a 10" subwoofer for live sound system; 15's and 18's are more naturally suited to those frequencies.

It's a moot point regardless, as the OP prefers 15" drivers; any cabinet suggestions for him to try?

The cabs I play or like have no bearing on this subject. There are cabs with 15's that go higher than some cabs with 10's. Driver size has nothing to do with it. 12's are not more naturally lower/girthier or any other adjective you can pick than 10's.

Each cab is an individual.




Once again wrong again. Surface area is a very small part of all of this. What does actually matter is displacement.

There are 15's out there that have as much displacement as some 610's.

 

[iualum]

You're going to get more volume out of a 2x212 or 412 setup than with a single 2x15...12's have a similar girth and bottom end to 15's, but respond much quicker and contain more mid articulation...Aguilar no longer make's cabinet's with 15's for those exact reasons

That all depends on which 12" drivers are used & which 15" drivers are used (& the cab design, too, of course, but let's say both cab designs are very good for the sake of argument). Specifics is the key. The devil's always in the details .

A 215 employing Eminence 3015s or Faital Pro 15PR400s, even without a tweeter, isn't just formidable. It's an extremely formidable box. This 215 is going to out-perform just about any 412 (if not all), unless top grade 12s are used. Include a tweeter & it's even more impressive.

Or a 215 with 3015LFs & one or two 18Sound 6ND410s. Katy bar the door, baby .

OP, call or email www.LowDownSound.com . He'll fix you right up. And you can pick all the cosmetics, too, if that matters, that is.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I'm not sure why you're acting so combatively.

No one is being combative, you are just posting misinformation.

The OP asked a very generalized question, which will naturally generate a lot of very generalized answers; I agree that every cab sounds different, and everyone's answers will be colored by personal experience.

Good, we agree on one thing.

A lot of things other than driver size affect the sound of a cabinet, but claiming that you can't make generalized comparisons between the inherent sonic qualities of the actual driver sizes themselves is simply incorrect.

15's move more slowly and have more bottom than 10's, which is why no one makes a 10" subwoofer for live sound system; 15's and 18's are more naturally suited to those frequencies.

No, I'm sorry this is not correct. With your logic a VW bug is going to be faster than a bugatti veyron because it is smaller.

The reason why no one uses 10" speakers in live sound sub woofers is economics. You could achieve the same results, but it would cost you more, as you would have to use more speakers, and it would weigh a lot more.

It's a moot point regardless, as the OP prefers 15" drivers; any cabinet suggestions for him to try?

Ok maybe two things...

 

[MDBass]

I think everyone is on the same page that each cab has it's own voice; the OP needs to try them for himself to decide what best suits his ears.

However, based on the information you've compiled, 4x10cabs are generally louder than 1x15 cabs, although there are obviously going to be expections, perhaps even quite a few.

fEARful goes into a lot of detail about how much extra excursion their drivers have, so it seems like that Dually in the classifieds might be exactly what the OP is looking for.

There is also the Dually with no 6" drivers and without a tweeter or with one.



It is a matter of speaker surface area AND excursion, the product of which is displacement and it really isn't that simple. Speaker excursion values vary so widely that you can not speak generally about the volume from different cabinets. For example, I have compiled a list of specifications of various cabinets from different companies and the sensitivity values for 4x10 cabinets range 98 to 103dB. For 1x15 cabinets it ranges from 96 to 99.5dB. Those are rather wide ranges I think. Far too wide to generalize about.

 

[Russell L]

2x115 here, for me. Very easy to move. Mine are Markbass Traveler 151p. They have enough bottom, IMO, and mids. Some don't like Markbass cabs, but I don't hear anything wrong with them. They're also quite tough and handle all I give them with my Little Mark III head. They certainly don't sound thin from a distance as stated above. As a matter of fact, while another player played my rig with just one of them at the jam the other night I had to actually go roll off some lows on the amp. And I was way out in the crowd. The rig was not DI'd either.

 

[georgestrings]

I have played a fair number of big cabs and I have to say that, yep, you can't just generalize based on format and need to judge each on its own merits. That, and some cabs play better with some heads, lol. Good luck.

This - I have played most of the quality commercially made big cabs on the market, and owned quite a few, FWIW...


- georgestrings

 

[MDBass]

You're definitely being combative by using that analogy to reframe what I said; an accurate analogy using cars would be something along the lines of 'if two cars are powered by the same motors and drivetrain, but one is only 2/3's the size/weight of the other, the smaller/lighter one will accelerate faster'.

Which is entirely accurate.

I'm not sure why you think that different sized drivers made with the same materials by the same company will reproduce sound in exactly the same way, but they won't.

Any 15" cab recomendations for the OP other than the Dually in the classifieds?

No one is being combative, you are just posting misinformation.



Good, we agree on one thing.



No, I'm sorry this is not correct. With your logic a VW bug is going to be faster than a bugatti veyron because it is smaller.

The reason why no one uses 10" speakers in live sound sub woofers is economics. You could achieve the same results, but it would cost you more, as you would have to use more speakers, and it would weigh a lot more.



Ok maybe two things...

 

[georgestrings]

have you ever had 810?
probably not.

I toured for 10 years with 412.
810 is EASIER TO MOVE.
PERIOD.

Not in all cases - for example, Mesa's 810 and 412 are basically the same box, with the 412 being lighter - also, I can state from experience that G-K's neo 412 is easier to move than any 810 ever made...

FWIW, I've owned atleast 3 SVT810e cabs, currently own Mesa's PH810 and PH215, and have also gigged with SWR's Megoliath and Goliath Sr, besides a bunch of other big cabs...

In short, your blanket statement is wrong, PERIOD...


- georgestrings

 

[Bass_Pounder]

I'm not sure why you think that different sized drivers made with the same materials by the same company will reproduce sound in exactly the same way, but they won't.

And I don't know why you would think that all 10's made by the same company with the same materials would sound the same, because they don't.

There are a bunch of specs that make up HOW a speaker sounds, diameter is NOT one of them.


BTW - ever hear of Acme bass cabs ? How could they possibly go that low, I mean they are 10's right ?

 

[chunkstyle]

My Ampeg 412 will crush your Ampeg 810.

 

[MDBass]

Definitely.

Don't most 4x12's and 2x15's have skid rails and built in tilt-back wheels?

Certainly the case with Aguilar's DB412 & DB810; exact same cab size/design, but the 4x12 is considerably lighter due to lower driver/magnet count.

Seems like it would be a fairly cumbersome design flaw to leave a box that large unequipped with built in wheels.

Not in all cases - for example, Mesa's 810 and 412 are basically the same box, with the 412 being lighter - also, I can state from experience that G-K's neo 412 is easier to move than any 810 ever made...

FWIW, I've owned atleast 3 SVT810e cabs, currently own Mesa's PH810 and PH215, and have also gigged with SWR's Megoliath and Goliath Sr, besides a bunch of other big cabs...

In short, your blanket statement is wrong, PERIOD...


- georgestrings

 

[georgestrings]

Definitely.

Don't most 4x12's and 2x15's have skid rails and built in tilt-back wheels?

Certainly the case with Aguilar's DB412 & DB810; exact same cab size/design, but the 4x12 is considerably lighter due to lower driver/magnet count.

Seems like it would be a fairly cumbersome design flaw to leave a box that large unequipped with built in wheels.

I've owned Mesa's PH610, PH810, PH215, and checked out their PH412 numerous times - all of those have skid rails and tilt-back casters... Also, their 412 is close to 50lbs lighter than their 810 - my PH215 is definitely easier to move than my PH810 is...


- georgestrings

 

[MDBass]

C'mon now, you're telling me that a company like Eminence has so little quality control that they can't manufacture a line of drivers using the same size and materials to all reproduce sound the same way? That in any given 4x10 cab you could have four entirely mismatched drivers?

I've played through Acme's before, and as we've already been thoroughly covered, there are a lot of other design aspects that affect a cab's sound reproduction in addition to driver size.

And I don't know why you would think that all 10's made by the same company with the same materials would sound the same, because they don't.

There are a bunch of specs that make up HOW a speaker sounds, diameter is NOT one of them.


BTW - ever hear of Acme bass cabs ? How could they possibly go that low, I mean they are 10's right ?

 

[iualum]

You're definitely being combative by using that analogy to reframe what I said; an accurate analogy using cars would be something along the lines of 'if two cars are powered by the same motors and drivetrain, but one is only 2/3's the size/weight of the other, the smaller/lighter one will accelerate faster'.

Which is entirely accurate.

I'm not sure why you think that different sized drivers made with the same materials by the same company will reproduce sound in exactly the same way, but they won't.

Any 15" cab recomendations for the OP other than the Dually in the classifieds?

Is there really a current Dually in the classifieds?

 

[MDBass]

Yep, I can move my 4x12 by myself easily, but I'll usually need a hand with the 8x10 at some point; that beast weighs more than I do.

Just curious, what do you prefer about the 2x15 over the 4x12? Aguilar doesn't make a 2x15 cab, so I haven't had the chance to AB those two varieties.

I've owned Mesa's PH610, PH810, PH215, and checked out their PH412 numerous times - all of those have skid rails and tilt-back casters... Also, their 412 is close to 50lbs lighter than their 810 - my PH215 is definitely easier to move than my PH810 is...


- georgestrings

 

[Vince Klortho]

However, based on the information you've compiled, 4x10cabs are generally louder than 1x15 cabs, although there are obviously going to be expections, perhaps even quite a few.

No, that is not what the list shows. What the list shows is within the same series of speakers from a given company, all 4x10s and 1x15s are within 1dB of each other. The exceptions, the 103dB 4x10 cabs, were from Genz Benz and one from Ashdown.