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412 vs 2x15 vs the fridge

#41
MDBass said:
C'mon now, you're telling me that a company like Eminence has so little quality control that they can't manufacture a line of drivers using the same size and materials to all reproduce sound the same way? That in any given 4x10 cab you could have four entirely mismatched drivers?

I've played through Acme's before, and as we've already been thoroughly covered, there are a lot of other design aspects that affect a cab's sound reproduction in addition to driver size.
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No..............

I am saying that Eminence makes a bunch of different models of 10's, all from the same materials, yet they all sound different.

And as far as the "design differences" of the Acme, it is NOT just a different cab design, it IS about different speaker design specs.

There are 15" mid drivers, and 10" subwoofers. - Size does not matter. Also, 15's are NOT slower then 10's - don't know where you get that from.
 
#43
MDBass said:
You're definitely being combative by using that analogy to reframe what I said; an accurate analogy using cars would be something along the lines of 'if two cars are powered by the same motors and drivetrain, but one is only 2/3's the size/weight of the other, the smaller/lighter one will accelerate faster'.

Which is entirely accurate.
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No, you still dont get it. All the motors of the speakers are different as well. Larger speakers do not move more slowly than smaller ones. They move at the same speed.

MDBass said:
I'm not sure why you think that different sized drivers made with the same materials by the same company will reproduce sound in exactly the same way, but they won't.
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Who said they do sound the same? There are 15's that go high, there are 10's that go low. The size of that driver has. nothing. to. do. with. that.
 
#44
I've never seen either a 15" mid driver or a 10" sub; again, all of our opinions are going to be colored by personal experience.

Comparing my two large Aguilar cabs (DB810 and DB412), which are built into the exact same enclosure, the 810 is more aggressive with more punch in the mids, while the 412 sounds thicker with more chewiness in the mids; then again, you could AB them in the same way and tell me something entirely different ;)

Bass_Pounder said:
No..............

I am saying that Eminence makes a bunch of different models of 10's, all from the same materials, yet they all sound different.

And as far as the "design differences" of the Acme, it is NOT just a different cab design, it IS about different speaker design specs.

There are 15" mid drivers, and 10" subwoofers. - Size does not matter. Also, 15's are NOT slower then 10's - don't know where you get that from.
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#45
The most often overlooked quality is dispersion. When you're playing to the room with your rig dispersion really counts if you care that your tone makes it to the many and not only the few in line with the cab.

All your fridge freezer cabs beam their mid highs far worse than 15's in a vertical cab, not that 15's are that great for dispersion but at least they are relatively cheap.

Imo if you aren't loud enough with 2x15 something is amiss. The drums are probably being buried, likely the vocals as well. If they aren't it's because there is a big PA there that isn't carrying the bass but should be, turn the cab across the stage, turn it down and rock out.
 
#46
MDBass said:
Yep, I can move my 4x12 by myself easily, but I'll usually need a hand with the 8x10 at some point; that beast weighs more than I do.

Just curious, what do you prefer about the 2x15 over the 4x12? Aguilar doesn't make a 2x15 cab, so I haven't had the chance to AB those two varieties.
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I'm fine with all aspects of moving my PH810 by myself, except in the rare instance that it needs to be dead lifted - IIRC, it weighs 173lbs... Tilt and slide loading into a car, truck, or on/off a stage is no problem for me...

Regarding preferences of the PH215 vs PH412 - I wanted a 215 because of the intended purposes I had in mind - tonally, a 215 works really well for certain needs of mine... That being said, the PH412 is an outrstanding cab, and would get any job done for me I'd ever do - I would just have to EQ it diferently than the 215, that's all...


- georgestrings
 
#47
MDBass said:
I've never seen either a 15" mid driver or a 10" sub; again, all of our opinions are going to be colored by personal experience.

Comparing my two large Aguilar cabs (DB810 and DB412), which are built into the exact same enclosure, the 810 is more aggressive with more punch in the mids, while 412 sounds thicker with more chewiness in the mids; then again, you could AB them in the same way and tell me something entirely different ;)
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Right, so from your experience you can make a judgement on a DB810, and a DB 412. Your findings do not extrapolate to any other cabs, regardless of the size speakers they are loaded with.
 
#48
I think the DB810 is 190lbs, but maybe I need to do less yoga and more lifting so I can always move the damn thing by myself...I do miss having roadies ;)

georgestrings said:
I'm fine with all aspects of moving my PH810 by myself, except in the rare instance that it needs to be dead lifted - IIRC, it weighs 173lbs... Tilt and slide loading into a car, truck, or on/off a stage is no problem for me...

Regarding preferences of the PH215 vs PH412 - I wanted a 215 because of the intended purposes I had in mind - tonally, a 215 works really well for certain needs of mine... That being said, the PH412 is an outrstanding cab, and would get any job done for me I'd ever do - I would just have to EQ it diferently than the 215, that's all...


- georgestrings
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#49
georgestrings said:
Not in all cases - for example, Mesa's 810 and 412 are basically the same box, with the 412 being lighter - also, I can state from experience that G-K's neo 412 is easier to move than any 810 ever made...

FWIW, I've owned atleast 3 SVT810e cabs, currently own Mesa's PH810 and PH215, and have also gigged with SWR's Megoliath and Goliath Sr, besides a bunch of other big cabs...

In short, your blanket statement is wrong, PERIOD...


- georgestrings
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all's cool, I'm not reffering to the stuff you own/owned - i wasn't quoting you;)
 
#52
I have had 8x10, 4x12 and 2x15 cabs over the years. The fridge is easier to move because of it's wheels and a handle no question. My Hiwatt 2150(2x15) is a bear to move no wheels and the handles are in a bad location, I bring a dolly Just for it. In the past I have run 8x10s and 4x12s next to 2x15 cabs. These days I have mostly 15s and 12s. If I am only going to run one cab I opt for the 2x15s
 
#53
You're obviously a fEARful fan, but their 2x15's that I've seen have two 6" drivers as well, as to not lose the mid articulation
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Keep looking...

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#58
My GK 412 NEO can blow your hat off 40 feet away.

It can also play whisper-quiet in a small room, like when I practice. It's relative easy to manhandle, too (90 pounds, tilt-back wheels) and fits in my backseat.

I do not know what else you can ask for in a large cab.
 
#59
Well this thread is...well, I guess it comes out pretty neutral, given the amount of misinformation is being corrected by the accurate information. Instead of saying whether I prefer 10s, 12s or 15s, since they don't have a generalized tone, I'll simply say my personal favorite cab is a Sunn cab loaded with JBL 140s. There you have it.

Greevus said:
15's do sound great up close, but step away and it gets thin.
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I mean...you're kidding, right? That's just...not true. There may be more beaming, so if you step to the side, you loose some frequencies, but it gets thinner the further away from the speaker you get? Sorry, but that's inaccurate. Maybe you just experienced with a specific cab or speaker? Either way, not a generalized fact about 15" speakers.
 
#60
elwuss said:
all's cool, I'm not reffering to the stuff you own/owned - i wasn't quoting you;)
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So when he says it, 810s are more difficult to move but when I say it you give a rude response, complete with all caps. Classy move.

And yeah, 810s aren't easier to move than 412 than logic is just crazy. Something that is several feet larger and 50-100lbs heavier cannot be easier to move.

For the record, I haven't owned an 810 but I have gigged them and more important I have helped other guys load them, plenty. You know how many times I have had to help somebody with a 412 get their cabinet into their van? Never, they lift it themselves... why is that? Oh right, it is easier to move.
 

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