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advice for discussing some thoughts with a guitar player

drewphishesp

drewphishesp

Feb 14, 2017
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#1
SO have been playing with a group of guys for about a year now. We all get along (some of us were friends outside of this before) and it sa good hang and great jam situation. its close to home, dedicated space in the drummers garage and we play music I enjoy. We could easily gig (we sound pretty good) but no one really has a desire much for gigging. More so a weekly jam hang to play and enjoy ourselves. We also record everything via multi track so its something cool to listen to, and use as a tool to improve my playing.
My main problem is our lead guitar player. Despite our best efforts hes always at 11 by the end of the night. He also seems to get lost in his own jam/solos/ideas and loses direction from the rest of the band at times. As we go from song to song he often misses cues because hes so wrapped up in his own playing. He's a friend and I dont want to make it personal, but I think we could get to the next level if we were to listen better to each other (we playly mostly jam band/ jam based music). How Do I bring this up with him without making a rift?
 
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#2
The real question is: Does anyone else think these are problems? If not, you're not going to make much progress being the only person who has an issue, and might even become the odd man out if they all take his side. I've been in those situations where someone just wants to "jam" and has zero interest or investment in actually playing well, as a group, or using it as an opportunity to improve. If he's that guy you're not going to talk him into taking his instrument seriously.

If he is open then just be honest. If he doesn't take direct communication well then you can make it general, like "We are not all together on the changes, everyone needs to really make an effort to watch for the cues" or "Our volume is getting out of control, let's all check our levels and resist the urge to turn up later."
 
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#6
"How many lead guitarists does it take to change a lightbulb?"
One...he holds the bulb and everything revolves around him.

What happens with some leads is they get so far into pushing themselves they forget about the mix. Top level pros probably can ride with it, but....well, not me anyway.

What I've had success with when someone gets unwrapped in a jam is quit playing. Explain that I couldnt find the ( tempo) (beat) (whatever). No blaming or criticism, just "something isnt working". Let them figure out what and why. Ok, it's kinda passive agressive, but not confrontational.
 
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#8
drewphishesp said:
...no one really has a desire much for gigging. More so a weekly jam hang to play and enjoy ourselves...
Click to expand...
So the band is essentially "already there" in terms of their goals or where they want the band to go right now. Nobody wants to gig, so this is about the ceiling for this particular group.

drewphishesp said:
...As we go from song to song he often misses cues because hes so wrapped up in his own playing. He's a friend and I dont want to make it personal, but I think we could get to the next level if we were to listen better to each other (we play mostly jam band/ jam based music). How Do I bring this up with him without making a rift?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but this is like inviting the guys over on Saturday to help build a gazebo, then getting upset if one guy shows up late and drinks too much while he's there. You're expecting professionalism from someone when that is not typically required in this context. Perhaps he returns because he gets to do things like this, which in a gigging or non-jam band wouldn't really fly.

Not trying to come off as hostile here, just playing Devil's Advocate. What he's doing would annoy me too, but I stay away from jam or basement bands, because if I'm woodshedding I want performance to be in the near future. Do you guys sell the recordings you make or want to cut an album? Other than that, I can't really see much retort if he says "It's a jam band, I'm just jamming...". This is just speculation about somebody I've never met, so please take this as just my uninformed opinion.
 
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#9
I would say that the only “problem” is the excessive volume. That’s uncomfortable, inconsiderate and unnecessary. He should be able to get pretty close to the tone he wants by using pedals instead of amp volume. That would warrant a conversation as soon as his volume gets too loud.
The getting lost and forgetting the map of the tune…to me that’s only a problem if the band desires to play out, charge money for a gig or even just perform for an audience. If the subject of playing out ever comes up, then it’s addressed as a whole ensemble as in. “we need to ge the arrangements tight so that we don’t embarrass ourselves out in public”.
 
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#10
drewphishesp said:
SO have been playing with a group of guys for about a year now. We all get along (some of us were friends outside of this before) and it sa good hang and great jam situation. its close to home, dedicated space in the drummers garage and we play music I enjoy. We could easily gig (we sound pretty good) but no one really has a desire much for gigging. More so a weekly jam hang to play and enjoy ourselves. We also record everything via multi track so its something cool to listen to, and use as a tool to improve my playing.
My main problem is our lead guitar player. Despite our best efforts hes always at 11 by the end of the night. He also seems to get lost in his own jam/solos/ideas and loses direction from the rest of the band at times. As we go from song to song he often misses cues because hes so wrapped up in his own playing. He's a friend and I dont want to make it personal, but I think we could get to the next level if we were to listen better to each other (we playly mostly jam band/ jam based music). How Do I bring this up with him without making a rift?
Click to expand...
Does he listen to the recordings? I work with a guitarist and we’ve had a musical relationship for over 50 years now. While he knew his song forms and chords down to the nails. His leads??? We used to call him “Hunk the Horiible”.

About 15 years ago after a long hiatus I rejoined the band. Having been out of the loop, I brought my digital recorder and recorded all of your rehearsals and gigs. After some time had passed and I mentioned that I had a fairly large recordings of gigs and wished I could get these on CD for future reference and he volunteered to transfer them.

At our next gig his guitar parts started to improve rather dramatically and now is is an extremely tasteful solid session player. He also has become a very good arranger/recording engineer/ and producer.

He is the deal, very few people can remember every note they played good or bad in context. It’s a very good possibility he has no clue what he sounds like. The cool thing about a recording is you don’t have to say a word. There is no confrontation. It is an indisputable fact.

Hope this helps.
 
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#11
Come on, the answer to this one is an old classic:"How do you get a guitarist to turn down? Put a sheet of music in front of him."

Seriously though, if you've already had a meeting about it with him and the behavior change only lasted a short while, you already have your answer.

On the other hand, enabling unwanted behavior in band members for months or years on end is a timeless tradition in band management.
I've done it. I've actually been both enabled and enabler and on at least one occasion, simultaneously.
 
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#12
When a bunch of players start out jamming with no intenetion of gigging, there always emerges one guy who wants more. You're that guy. That's neither good nor bad, it just is. If everyone else is happy with what you're doing, this may no longer be the group for you if you need to scratch that itch. Not that you can't keep playing with them, but maybe look for another band that will play out.

The thing I couldn't put up with here is the volume. That is simply inconsiderate of others and uncalled for.
 
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#15
drewphishesp said:
its not that I want to gig, but I want to evolve as a band. Its hard to do that when not everyones on the same page
Click to expand...
Yeah, I've been here. I think we all have.

Q: Does said guitar player care? Is he trying to get better? Does it matter to him what you and/or everyone thinks?

The rub here is, that you're not a pro and you and the group isn't ambitious. This is a fun hang with friends and it's convenient and practical and all of the things and it's not meant to be more.

But, you have a musical standard that isn't being met by this group. (which a very real and generally good thing)

I have an answer, but you're not going to like it:

* You need to play with different people and in different situations to satisfy yourself musically.

* Or the band needs to set new goals and commit to doing the individual and collective work that needs to be done to achieve them.

* And/or the collective needs to be willing and able to push someone (friend or not) out and replace them if they aren't aligned.


There is a slim chance, I suppose, that talking to the guitar player will make a difference, but honestly that's not how it usually goes. If it's just a fun hang for him too, this is him having fun.

Is it important enough to you to get into a different playing situation that will rise to your standard? Could you do that in addition to this weekly sesh or would you need to leave to do something else? Would you have support from the majority to put a stake in the ground and make a change and maybe lose a friend?

Sorry, no great options. I think the safest and classiest is to look for another playing opportunity. Be honest and open with your friends. Don't criticize them, just say you want to go bigger and push yourself to be better. But you know the situation better than we could.
 
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#19
Noodling, noodling, noodling.... Yeah, many a good friendship has become strained over the guitar players incessant noodling. Rather like being in love and five years later wanting to choke your betrothed over the way she chews her food..... I say address it before it lingers and does stress things to a breaking point.
 
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