Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[steubig]

he really is great.

the parker sounds better here to me than other times i heard it.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Hmm... Steve Swallow is one of those musicians who I have immense respect for -- not just his consummate musicianship and huge encyclopedic ears but also his discipline, restraint, self-control, his willingness to listen, the thoughtfulness he puts into every note, the fact that nothing he plays ever sounds like a canned lick but always a sensitive well-regarded musical response to being in that precise moment -- but I cannot stand his tone. I wrote this somewhere else on TB a few years ago, or something to this effect: Steve Swallow's first electric was one of those terminally muddy-sounding Gibson EB-2D basses, and ever since then he's been commissioning brilliant luthiers to spare no expense in recreating that crappy tone.

But here's a fascinating and insightful quote about instruments and tone from Steve Swallow that I also shared in TB ~4 years ago in this thread:

"The conventional wisdom regarding the electric bass is that Leo Fender got it right. It's really remarkable the extent he nailed it right off the bat with the Precision Bass and subsequently the Jazz Bass in the '50s when the instrument was being born. But some of the things he nailed were along the lines of making an extremely efficient instrument, an instrument that spoke very quickly and clearly, that sustained very well, that could be heard at a greater volume than the acoustic bass could be heard. Those were all tremendously valuable attributes, and had a tremendous effect on certain kinds of music, but not really on jazz music.

"What I've been looking for in the electric bass is, in a sense, the opposite of what Leo Fender accomplished. I've been looking for a kind of inefficiency to the instrument that I loved in the acoustic bass. Every acoustic bass has notes that need to be favored. I has 'wolf tones' and it has dead spots on the neck. It has personality, and as a player, you're often at odds with that personality and you're trying desperately as you practice to thwart the instrument. To make the 'wolf tones' speak and to make the tones that are popping out at you not pop out at you, to bend the instrument to your own purposes. I've been looking to retrieve that in the electric bass, to get electric bass makers to build an instrument with anomalies, to dare to build an instrument that's inefficient, that stinks of personality, of its own identity.

"And I've had some success in persuading makers to pursue that, in particular Harvey Citron, the guy who's built the last half-dozen instruments I've had. It's been fun to explore this."

Would be boring as crap if we all liked the same thing.

 

[cosmicevan]

I had the great fortune of playing a few of the Citron AE models (acutally got to play a ton of different Citron instruments...spent a day with him in Woodstock learning about luthiery and instrument repair in the early 00's actually).

As for picks, I enjoy using a pick here and there. On bass, I've found great love for picks made of metal and silver. I've been exploring picks lately and just got a few from this guy isbeycustomdesign and somed dragon picks coming.

 

[theunknowndude]

It’s funny... I don’t like arch enemy but like I wrestled a bear once... maybe it’s just their crazy changes compared to straight bleh

also not a fan of the latest stuff / her personality but early Otep is pretty good... she can sing and roar with the best of them

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Hmm... Steve Swallow is one of those musicians who I have immense respect for -- not just his consummate musicianship and huge encyclopedic ears but also his discipline, restraint, self-control, his willingness to listen, the thoughtfulness he puts into every note, the fact that nothing he plays ever sounds like a canned lick but always a sensitive well-regarded musical response to being in that precise moment -- but I cannot stand his tone. I wrote this somewhere else on TB a few years ago, or something to this effect: Steve Swallow's first electric was one of those terminally muddy-sounding Gibson EB-2D basses, and ever since then he's been commissioning brilliant luthiers to spare no expense in recreating that crappy tone.

But here's a fascinating and insightful quote about instruments and tone from Steve Swallow that I also shared in TB ~4 years ago in this thread:

"The conventional wisdom regarding the electric bass is that Leo Fender got it right. It's really remarkable the extent he nailed it right off the bat with the Precision Bass and subsequently the Jazz Bass in the '50s when the instrument was being born. But some of the things he nailed were along the lines of making an extremely efficient instrument, an instrument that spoke very quickly and clearly, that sustained very well, that could be heard at a greater volume than the acoustic bass could be heard. Those were all tremendously valuable attributes, and had a tremendous effect on certain kinds of music, but not really on jazz music.

"What I've been looking for in the electric bass is, in a sense, the opposite of what Leo Fender accomplished. I've been looking for a kind of inefficiency to the instrument that I loved in the acoustic bass. Every acoustic bass has notes that need to be favored. I has 'wolf tones' and it has dead spots on the neck. It has personality, and as a player, you're often at odds with that personality and you're trying desperately as you practice to thwart the instrument. To make the 'wolf tones' speak and to make the tones that are popping out at you not pop out at you, to bend the instrument to your own purposes. I've been looking to retrieve that in the electric bass, to get electric bass makers to build an instrument with anomalies, to dare to build an instrument that's inefficient, that stinks of personality, of its own identity.

"And I've had some success in persuading makers to pursue that, in particular Harvey Citron, the guy who's built the last half-dozen instruments I've had. It's been fun to explore this."

I'll tell you one guys tone I hate. Ok, despise.
It rhymes with "Beff Jerlin"

 

[Bob_Ross]

I hear ya. I thought Berlin's tone was excellent for a very brief ~2 year period right around 1980. But prior to that he was (apparently) too enamored with Jack Bruce and so had a distortion component that just seemed out of place in the type of music he was playing, and after that he embraced that godawful chorusing that turns his sound to cloying mush to this very day.

 

[lordradish]

I hear ya. I thought Berlin's tone was excellent for a very brief ~2 year period right around 1980. But prior to that he was (apparently) too enamored with Jack Bruce and so had a distortion component that just seemed out of place in the type of music he was playing, and after that he embraced that godawful chorusing that turns his sound to cloying mush to this very day.

I liked Berlin's tone during the Bruford years, although I don't think it was anything really unique. I don't know much about his tone after that, because everything I've heard outside of the Bruford stuff wasn't really all that interesting, a lot of it sounded like generic fusion.

 

[emjazz]

Jeff is an incredible musician. I like his unaffected sound. It's warm, even and punchy. A friend has one of his Cort 5 string signature bass and it's really amazing.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Jeff is an incredible musician

Absolutely.
I'd still rather listen to Bob Dylan falling down a flight of stairs than a Beff Jerlin solo album.

 

[monsterthompson]

Absolutely.
I'd still rather listen to Bob Dylan falling down a flight of stairs than a Beff Jerlin solo album.

 

[hieronymous]

Beff Jerlin lol

I always enjoy the conversation here even if I don't contribute much - I get kind of bummed during the 12 hour lulls.

This solo by Steve Swallow blew me away, it's my favorite thing by him:



Is his bass supposed to sound like that?!! Beff Jerlin's got nothing on this guy! I actually love the sound, as crappy as it is - Bob's quote about his approach resonates with me. Look at him - playing a Gibson EB-2 with the two-point Evertilt™ bridge, nobody's choice for good sound and intonation, and yet I find it so inspiring.

Hmm... Steve Swallow is one of those musicians who I have immense respect for -- not just his consummate musicianship and huge encyclopedic ears but also his discipline, restraint, self-control, his willingness to listen, the thoughtfulness he puts into every note, the fact that nothing he plays ever sounds like a canned lick but always a sensitive well-regarded musical response to being in that precise moment -- but I cannot stand his tone. I wrote this somewhere else on TB a few years ago, or something to this effect: Steve Swallow's first electric was one of those terminally muddy-sounding Gibson EB-2D basses, and ever since then he's been commissioning brilliant luthiers to spare no expense in recreating that crappy tone.

But here's a fascinating and insightful quote about instruments and tone from Steve Swallow that I also shared in TB ~4 years ago in this thread:

"The conventional wisdom regarding the electric bass is that Leo Fender got it right. It's really remarkable the extent he nailed it right off the bat with the Precision Bass and subsequently the Jazz Bass in the '50s when the instrument was being born. But some of the things he nailed were along the lines of making an extremely efficient instrument, an instrument that spoke very quickly and clearly, that sustained very well, that could be heard at a greater volume than the acoustic bass could be heard. Those were all tremendously valuable attributes, and had a tremendous effect on certain kinds of music, but not really on jazz music.

"What I've been looking for in the electric bass is, in a sense, the opposite of what Leo Fender accomplished. I've been looking for a kind of inefficiency to the instrument that I loved in the acoustic bass. Every acoustic bass has notes that need to be favored. I has 'wolf tones' and it has dead spots on the neck. It has personality, and as a player, you're often at odds with that personality and you're trying desperately as you practice to thwart the instrument. To make the 'wolf tones' speak and to make the tones that are popping out at you not pop out at you, to bend the instrument to your own purposes. I've been looking to retrieve that in the electric bass, to get electric bass makers to build an instrument with anomalies, to dare to build an instrument that's inefficient, that stinks of personality, of its own identity.

"And I've had some success in persuading makers to pursue that, in particular Harvey Citron, the guy who's built the last half-dozen instruments I've had. It's been fun to explore this."

I am also realizing how fortunate I am to have started playing bass with both fingers and pick. I have switched back and forth throughout my life (sometimes during the same song) - the past 4-5 years I've been playing pretty much exclusively with fingers while playing with others, but have recently had the possibility of playing with a Grateful Dead tribute band, so it's been fun to switch to 100% pick and try and interpret Phil Lesh. So my pick collection has reemerged: I was using Telefunken & Adamas graphite picks a lot, but I've gone back to my Dunlop Tortex blue & purple picks (1.0 & 1.14) for roundwounds, and a weird STR Guitars triangular 1.50 from Japan for flats - trying to find something mass produced and available here in the US to replace it.

 

[Bob_Ross]

playing bass with both fingers and pick. I have switched back and forth throughout my life (sometimes during the same song)

^^^the highlighted portion reminds me of the time I saw John Zorn's Naked City from the front row of The Knitting Factory sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. Bassist Fred Frith was doing an awful lot of switching back & forth between pick and fingers within the same tune. I turned to my friend and asked "Do you think Zorn's bass charts specify when to use fingers versus when to use the pick?"

My buddy replied "I think that's all they specify."




=================

fwiw, I've used both throughout my career; I'll play with a pick any time it's required and/or serves the music ...but tbh the last time I was involved in music that genuinely required pick playing on a more-than-infrequent basis was in the mid-1980s, when playing Sting-like lines was de rigueur.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Are reading my mind also?!?!!??!
That one is genius.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

^^^the highlighted portion reminds me of the time I saw John Zorn's Naked City from the front row of The Knitting Factory sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. Bassist Fred Frith was doing an awful lot of switching back & forth between pick and fingers within the same tune. I turned to my friend and asked "Do you think Zorn's bass charts specify when to use fingers versus when to use the pick?"

My buddy replied "I think that's all they specify."




=================

fwiw, I've used both throughout my career; I'll play with a pick any time it's required and/or serves the music ...but tbh the last time I was involved in music that genuinely required pick playing on a more-than-infrequent basis was in the mid-1980s, when playing Sting-like lines was de rigueur.

Scofield also has an insane technique to switch between fingers and pick.
He sorta hide's between his fingers in the palm of his hand.

Goes back and forth between the 2 effortlessly. That's whe I saw him live playing solo guitar for 1h30 then saw him with uberjam the same night 2 hours later.

Will check out fred firth fo shizzle.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Are reading my mind also?!?!!??!
That one is genius.

This one is still one of my favorites.

 

[Spectrum]

Absolutely.
I'd still rather listen to Bob Dylan falling down a flight of stairs than a Beff Jerlin solo album.

At Dylan's age, that might be very serious. I don't necessarily want to hear his voice, but I still like the guy lol.

 

[HotelX]

I knew a woman who claimed she saw Dylan so high on mushrooms that he fell down some stairs. She got to hang with him a few times back in the 60s on condition that they don’t talk about music and all that star stuff.

I’m a big Dylan fan though the few times I’ve seen him live have been generally awful.

 

[steubig]

300,000,000 stairs today.

 

[HotelX]

Good for him. I heard he is starting a second career as an ambient free-jazzer.

 

[emjazz]

Good for him. I heard he is starting a second career as an ambient free-jazzer.

I have two responses to that...
1. Aren't we all?
2. This is the way.