Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

[steubig]

imo, tube preamps tend to have high end sheen or attack that i don’t like. (and i’ve tried more than a few: first demeter, f2b, early ampeg svt rack, swr [both the 400 amp and the stand-alone pre], blue tube, genz amps with tube pre).

f2b is cool if you want a dual showman style sound.

not always convinced that tube preamps do much for me in the low end.

for me, tube power is always a little slow in response, so if speed is your game, i don’t think it’s great.

i think solid is especially better for mids/low mids/lows.

 

[emjazz]

imo, tube preamps tend to have high end sheen or attack that i don’t like. (and i’ve tried more than a few: first demeter, f2b, early ampeg svt rack, swr [both the 400 amp and the stand-alone pre], blue tube, genz amps with tube pre).

f2b is cool if you want a dual showman style sound.

not always convinced that tube preamps do much for me in the low end.

for me, tube power is always a little slow in response, so if speed is your game, i don’t think it’s great.

i think solid is especially better for mids/low mids/lows.

Agreed on all accounts. I do feel that studio tube preamps are very different (normally much better/more natural sounding/less hyped to me), but when speaking about bass specific preamps, this is all very true. I sold my Demeter pre because of that high end sheen that I wasn't into. My favorite amp is an Aguilar DB750/51. Tube preamp with a big power section. Warm and round, but fast. I won't be carrying that one around on gigs, though.

 

[steubig]

i have one the first demeter (didn’t even have a serial number, probably in the first 10-20). it’s been on long-term (like 20 years) loan to a friend who has a recording studio.

i played a few oldies gig with an svt that were luscious, but wouldn’t want to own one.

i tried an aggie (don’t know which model, hut all tube) and comparing to my old woods. that’s when i realized that they weren’t “fast.”

 

[emjazz]

i have one the first demeter (didn’t even have a serial number, probably in the first 10-20). it’s been on long-term (like 20 years) loan to a friend who has a recording studio.

i played a few oldies gig with an svt that were luscious, but wouldn’t want to own one.

i tried an aggie (don’t know which model, hut all tube) and comparing to my old woods. that’s when i realized that they weren’t “fast.”

You mean the Aggie with the tube wasn't fast? I'm curious which one it was.

Man...I'd grab a Woods in a heartbeat if I knew it could be repaired in the future without sending it to Berlin or Paris.

 

[Bob_Ross]

imo, tube preamps tend to have high end sheen or attack that i don’t like. (and i’ve tried more than a few: first demeter, f2b, early ampeg svt rack, swr [both the 400 amp and the stand-alone pre], blue tube, genz amps with tube pre).

Interesting. I've used SVTs and a Demeter (and still own one of his VTMP-2B mic preamps, which I've used for bass when recording) and I owned an SWR SM-400 for ~15 years, and I've been using an Alembic F-1X for the past 5 or 6 years, and I don't think any of those preamps have much in common! The SWR is the only one I'd say had a "high end sheen" (...although, to be fair, it's really easy to dial in a crap-ton of high end sheen on the Alembic...I just rarely crank the Treble or engage the Brite switch unless I'm going for a special effect).

comparing to my old woods. that’s when i realized that they weren’t “fast.”

Ah, well yeah, a Walter Woods amp definitely has a distinctively different sound from ...well, nearly anything I've ever heard. It's definitely "fast" in the literal (transient-response/slew rate) sense...though I would argue that most of the rigs being discussed -- with the exception of an Ampeg SVT -- probably measure close enough to the Woods in that regard too.

It's a weird use of technology, slapping a tube in something not because you (the designer) need it to make the circuit work, but because the consumer is asking for it...and then you (still the designer) have to make sure that the consumer can tell that he got what he paid for, so you have to second-guess their expectations and figure out how to get the circuit to sound like what someone thinks it should? Walter Woods definitely got one thing right: He doesn't give AF what we think

 

[monsterthompson]

First and foremost the Alembic F2B/F1X, but also looking into smaller pres that will get me the same sound (or close enough). But I'm also still just shopping around so I'm trying to keep an open mind and not restrict myself to only Alembic and its clones.

One person's demo. Just including it as a data point, not as anything definitive. I found the Arkham Oracle to sound different in this video vs. other demos, so I'm not sure how helpful this actually is. In fact, if it adds confusion, then good

 

[shoegazebass]

Without being conversant with many of the tube pres mentioned so far, I've been pretty happy with the sushibox tube pedal pres. I've settled on the Slampegg, Space Heater and Underground Accelerator pedals for various use cases and am happy with what they all bring to the table.

 

[monsterthompson]

I caved. A stressful day at work chipped away at my efforts to curtail spending in the 4th quarter. The retail therapy “can’t take it with you” demon said “you must have all three.” The red unicorn was in stock, so I got it.

First dinner. Then BOUM.

 

[lordradish]

let me preface this by saying that i basically stopped spending money in december 2019, as i had a bad feeling about the economy. so 2020 was pretty much buying nothing.

2021, well that's a different story . . . between selling a bunch of stuff and inheriting some money from my mom, i may have gotten a little out of hand.

sort of a miss, but almost a hit: roland mc-707. too many menu windows for this luddite—and not part of my basic sound world/workflow right now. (same ended up being true of the boss 500 series, which is great, but too program-y in a live situation for me.) my drum machine entre was the 808, so i like knobs. anyway, most likely going to sell it.

hits:
waldorf iridium: great synth design, not too menu-y. amazing sound.

red panda pedals: easy to use live—knobs are good for me. good architecture. good sound. so far i've bonded with their aesthetic/work flow.

make noise semi-modular and modular stuff: major addiction in two easy steps. so far i've bonded with their aesthetic/work flow/sound. enjoying not knowing what i'm doing and trying to create something from that.

maybe that bottle of bulleit had something to do with my judgement.

a year from now, who knows? i might hate all this stuff.

You won't hate the Iridium. I'd marry the damn thing if I could.

 

[emjazz]

One person's demo. Just including it as a data point, not as anything definitive. I found the Arkham Oracle to sound different in this video vs. other demos, so I'm not sure how helpful this actually is. In fact, if it adds confusion, then good

A friend loaned me the Arkham once. With my higher output pickups it broke up way too much even with the gain all the way down, but if you like overdriven ampeg tone, then it's great.
I currently have the Khan here. One of my favorites tha I've heard. It does have a baked in bump in the midrange. That could be great or not depending on your taste. In general it just works.
I don't want to try the Noble because it's too expensive to love...can't take the chance.
I tried a Demeter tube DI last year and never should have sold it. Amazing box, but it's quite large to be carrying around as an extra piece of gear.

 

[monsterthompson]

There is a lot to unpack here. Holy heck.
I’ve mostly seen demos on drums, and I’ve yet to see ones with a bass guitar, so I had no idea what to expect.

First impressions, with my P bass, are that I’m impressed.
- Single knob comp does a lot. Still need to mess with the input gain, attack, and release settings.

- The four distortion voices are useable on bass. They go from clean to fuzzy. The first 25-50% of the drive knob does a lot of the work. A little goes a long way. And there’s a gate.

- The filter works as a quasi cab sim, particularly with the HPF set at 75 Hz. Mix in some dry signal and comp and I wouldn’t be surprised if this works in heavier music just going straight into the mixer/interface.

 

[dukeorock]

I have a hard time believing almost anything with a tube isn't just marketing nonsense. All tube bass amps have their place, but I don’t feel the need for one

 

[steubig]

Interesting. I've used SVTs and a Demeter (and still own one of his VTMP-2B mic preamps, which I've used for bass when recording) and I owned an SWR SM-400 for ~15 years, and I've been using an Alembic F-1X for the past 5 or 6 years, and I don't think any of those preamps have much in common! The SWR is the only one I'd say had a "high end sheen" (...although, to be fair, it's really easy to dial in a crap-ton of high end sheen on the Alembic...I just rarely crank the Treble or engage the Brite switch unless I'm going for a special effect).



Ah, well yeah, a Walter Woods amp definitely has a distinctively different sound from ...well, nearly anything I've ever heard. It's definitely "fast" in the literal (transient-response/slew rate) sense...though I would argue that most of the rigs being discussed -- with the exception of an Ampeg SVT -- probably measure close enough to the Woods in that regard too.

It's a weird use of technology, slapping a tube in something not because you (the designer) need it to make the circuit work, but because the consumer is asking for it...and then you (still the designer) have to make sure that the consumer can tell that he got what he paid for, so you have to second-guess their expectations and figure out how to get the circuit to sound like what someone thinks it should? Walter Woods definitely got one thing right: He doesn't give AF what we think

i didn’t say they had anything in common, per se. they all have too much high end for me, which i associate with tube response (same basic results with 70s v4-b and 70s bassman 100). imo, the sm-400 had the blandest flavor of any amp i’ve owned.

walter doesn’t get enough credit. he started the small powerful switching amp thing in the 70s.

 

[steubig]

You won't hate the Iridium. I'd marry the damn thing if I could.

i’ve had it for about eight months.

it’s wife 2 (hydra was wife 1). of course, i’m having a major affaire du coeur with the modular now.

 

[bassbrad]

I have a hard time believing almost anything with a tube isn't just marketing nonsense. All tube bass amps have their place, but I don’t feel the need for one

I used to feel the same way, especially with low voltage designs of most tube pedals on the market. @Sushi Box FX designs use 210- 240 volts for most designs some even higher, those are proper levels for saturation and tube warmth.

Most 'tube' pedals are 18-27 or 36 volts at most it pays to check the specs.

 

[emjazz]

i didn’t say they had anything in common, per se. they all have too much high end for me, which i associate with tube response (same basic results with 70s v4-b and 70s bassman 100). imo, the sm-400 had the blandest flavor of any amp i’ve owned.

walter doesn’t get enough credit. he started the small powerful switching amp thing in the 70s.

I do think Walter gets the credit, but his business sense has made it impossible to trust his amps any longer. I still feel they are some of the best amps ever made. I still haven't found a modern equivalent, no matter what one says otherwise. Between their warm sound and supportive low end without needing eq hype, I've yet to find something of it's size that's similar. He seemed to look a it as high end audio equipment and not a bass amp. Bass amps are usually made to hype certain frequencies. His didn't do that. I use an older Acoustic Image amp, but the eq leaves a lot to be desired...I have to use an external parametric eq pedal to get the low end right. Walter's amps sounded just right all of the time. Truly a genius.

 

[Bob_Ross]

i didn’t say they had anything in common, per se. they all have too much high end for me, which i associate with tube response (same basic results with 70s v4-b and 70s bassman 100). imo, the sm-400 had the blandest flavor of any amp i’ve owned.

Hmm... I wonder if that sense of "too much high end" is related to the tone stack rather than the tube itself? I know the Bassman and the Alembic and (I think?) the Ampegs use the same interactive circuit for the tone controls, where the least hyped high end comes when the Treble control is all the way down at 2 or 3 (out of 10)?

The word I always used to describe the SM-400 was "transparent" ...and for a bass amp that's usually the last thing you want! I want phat, corpulent, opaque thickness in the low end and lower midrange, not glassy 2-dimensional clarity.

I do think Walter gets the credit, but his business sense has made it impossible to trust his amps any longer. I still feel they are some of the best amps ever made. I still haven't found a modern equivalent, no matter what one says otherwise. Between their warm sound and supportive low end without needing eq hype, I've yet to find something of it's size that's similar. He seemed to look a it as high end audio equipment and not a bass amp. Bass amps are usually made to hype certain frequencies. His didn't do that. I use an older Acoustic Image amp, but the eq leaves a lot to be desired...I have to use an external parametric eq pedal to get the low end right. Walter's amps sounded just right all of the time. Truly a genius.

I've been using an Acoustic Image Focus 1 Series II head for the past dozen or so years, and 9 times out of 10 I find the tone controls absolutely wonderful...if I simply don't touch them! All knobs at noon yields fantastic tone from all of my basses most of the time. But as soon as I think "ah, this venue could use a tad more beef" or "hmm, I need to take out a hint of upper-mids here" that tone stack just laughs at me and says "What, you want me to actually work? Eff off!"
For those rare instances I put an Alembic SF-2 SuperFilter in the effects loop, and god help the speaker cabinet that can't keep up with the raging slabs of thickness that beast is capable of dialing in. I once literally set a speaker on fire with that rig. Seriously.

 

[JES]

Interesting to watch the tube discussion. My main gigging (until 2020) and practice amp is an Orange Terror Bass which, if someone ever tells me the font on the front, I will rechristen as a Pleasure Bass. It has a couple preamp tubes and definitely uses them to colour the sound. Like a lot. I like it quite a bit, and the volume from the class D amp is frankly shocking (maybe it is a terror bass after all). If I want totally clean, I can go in via the FX return and voila, no coloration.

When my Eden WT400 died (includes marketing tube!) I tried a 40 watt Ampeg, but found I preferred a Quilter guitar amp instead (no tube). My Sansamp VTDI does the distortion thing as well as I could ever hope, and I seem to prefer its modelling to Impulse Response based cab sims.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Tube amps on the road are a #^#^#&#&# nightmare.
100% fail rate after 1 week in the van,

 

[monsterthompson]

Careful with all this tube vs solid state chatter. agedhorse is going to pop by and give us a talking to

Currently running a few tracks through the BOUM, and it’s dang cool. There might be plugins that could get me the same effect, but this thing feels pretty intuitive.