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Another Shooting

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#761
Dr. Cheese said:
I hear now that Florida Governor Scott has appointed a commission to study the case. This has gotten ridiculous, this case needed police work, not a goverment commission that will probably take a year to write a report that leads to nothing. In Florida, shootings are pretty doggone common. This should have been handled long ago. The fact that no one official with the ability have Zimmerman arrested has done so is a shame and an embarrasment to fair minded people in Florida.

The initial police work was so bad that I think it is fair to ask if there was a conspiracy to suppress evidence. Zimmerman was was not drug tested although Martin was. His bloody shirt was not taken for evidence. There was no ballistics work done on his gun (good luck finding it now:rollno:.) No background check was done on Zimmerman although one was done on Martin. Apparently some witnesses were ignored, and at least one witness was told by the officer to change her statement to fit the scenario that officer felt should fit. Finally, the police did not check the cell phone records of Martin.

I think it is fair to say that there was no investigation at all.
The total indifference to the killing of Trayvon Martin is actually more upsetting to me than his killing. Individual racism or paranoia is terrible, but realistically, no one can ever control every biased or possibly demented person. The fact that the local police were so biased that they only sought information that would justify the shooting instead of trying to honestly assess the situation is something that no one deserves, at least no one with human decency.

If it is possible, I think the investigating officer should be indicted for some charge related to appears to me to be a conspiracy to suppress evidence and deny justice, and the administration of the Sanford PD needs to be fired.
Click to expand...

With each passing day, I'm agreeing more and more. This has gotten to the point of being ludicrous. What in god's name are they thinking!??
 
#762
Dr. Cheese said:
Zimmerman was was not drug tested although Martin was. His bloody shirt was not taken for evidence. There was no ballistics work done on his gun (good luck finding it now:rollno:.) No background check was done on Zimmerman although one was done on Martin. Apparently some witnesses were ignored, and at least one witness was told by the officer to change her statement to fit the scenario that officer felt should fit. Finally, the police did not check the cell phone records of Martin.

I think it is fair to say that there was no investigation at all.
The total indifference to the killing of Trayvon Martin is actually more upsetting to me than his killing. .
Click to expand...

This is some unbelievable stuff, and you're right.

We expect terrible things to happen - and we expect the police to step in and do their job when those things do happen. This stuff is very wrong.
 
#763
I've listened to the several different recordings. I don't hear the "p" in punks. I hear the "c" (k) sound up front but also hear a bit of a "k" sound at the end.

What makes me unsure is that the middle is more of a long "o" (oh) sound, not "oo", so in total it sounds like "cokes", which doesn't make any sense. I don't know how much cutting and boosting frequencies changes the actual word sounds, but I would think it would have some sort of effect. Someone could argue the "cleaned" audio is actually "altered" audio.

So I've concluded I can't tell what he said. My Poppy Crum reference is from a video that's been posted on TB several times about audio myths. Invalid Link Removed

Check out the 6 minute mark where they play Stairway backwards. No one hears anything. But when they post some lyrics, it seems obvious. Weird. Poppy is so hot.:)
 
#764
JAUQO III-X said:
I do not hear a p or k I hear the word coons.




The CNN host says that it does sound like he said coons but then says that he wasn't sure. That's just his way of teetering while making it possible for him to not have to testify in court.
Click to expand...

I didn't hear a long ooo sound like you hear in the middle of coons. Everyone's been told already that Zimmerman may have said coons, so if you think you're about to hear a word, it's easy to say "Oh yep, that's definitely the word I heard."
 
#765
Dr. Cheese said:
I hear now that Florida Governor Scott has appointed a commission to study the case. This has gotten ridiculous, this case needed police work, not a goverment commission that will probably take a year to write a report that leads to nothing. In Florida, shootings are pretty doggone common. This should have been handled long ago. The fact that no one official with the ability have Zimmerman arrested has done so is a shame and an embarrasment to fair minded people in Florida.

The initial police work was so bad that I think it is fair to ask if there was a conspiracy to suppress evidence. Zimmerman was was not drug tested although Martin was. His bloody shirt was not taken for evidence. There was no ballistics work done on his gun (good luck finding it now:rollno:.) No background check was done on Zimmerman although one was done on Martin. Apparently some witnesses were ignored, and at least one witness was told by the officer to change her statement to fit the scenario that officer felt should fit. Finally, the police did not check the cell phone records of Martin.

I think it is fair to say that there was no investigation at all.
The total indifference to the killing of Trayvon Martin is actually more upsetting to me than his killing. Individual racism or paranoia is terrible, but realistically, no one can ever control every biased or possibly demented person. The fact that the local police were so biased that they only sought information that would justify the shooting instead of trying to honestly assess the situation is something that no one deserves, at least no one with human decency.

If it is possible, I think the investigating officer should be indicted for some charge related to appears to me to be a conspiracy to suppress evidence and deny justice, and the administration of the Sanford PD needs to be fired.
Click to expand...

Re: ballistics and blood.

I understand that the lack of analysis has compounded the anger some have, but remember this: there is no doubt that Zimmerman shot Martin. There is no doubt what gun he used. The gun is, with most certainty, in police custody. There is really no need to investigate these things because they are known facts admitted by the shooter.
 
#766
Dr. Cheese said:
I hear now that Florida Governor Scott has appointed a commission to study the case. This has gotten ridiculous, this case needed police work, not a goverment commission that will probably take a year to write a report that leads to nothing. In Florida, shootings are pretty doggone common. This should have been handled long ago. The fact that no one official with the ability have Zimmerman arrested has done so is a shame and an embarrasment to fair minded people in Florida.

The initial police work was so bad that I think it is fair to ask if there was a conspiracy to suppress evidence. Zimmerman was was not drug tested although Martin was. His bloody shirt was not taken for evidence. There was no ballistics work done on his gun (good luck finding it now:rollno:.) No background check was done on Zimmerman although one was done on Martin. Apparently some witnesses were ignored, and at least one witness was told by the officer to change her statement to fit the scenario that officer felt should fit. Finally, the police did not check the cell phone records of Martin.

I think it is fair to say that there was no investigation at all.
The total indifference to the killing of Trayvon Martin is actually more upsetting to me than his killing. Individual racism or paranoia is terrible, but realistically, no one can ever control every biased or possibly demented person. The fact that the local police were so biased that they only sought information that would justify the shooting instead of trying to honestly assess the situation is something that no one deserves, at least no one with human decency.

If it is possible, I think the investigating officer should be indicted for some charge related to appears to me to be a conspiracy to suppress evidence and deny justice, and the administration of the Sanford PD needs to be fired.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think the police have shown what evidence they have. They don't have the gun? Are you positive? Bloody shirt? The initial police report says he was wearing a red jacket. His back is described as wet he was bleeding from the nose and back of head. It doesn't mention a bloody shirt.

The witness tampering is an unknown also. I listened to the news conference where the lady said she “heard the crying, it was a little boy. As soon as the gun went off, the crying stopped”. Is that what you heard on the 911 tape?

Drug/Alcohol test? Is it SOP for a shooter? Did they request the test specifically for Martin or was it part of the autopsy?

Cell phone records? Like I said before, if they had the phone and didn't do anything it's pitiful. But they're investigation records aren't public yet. Zimmerman background check? Don't know what they did. Again, if they didn't, it's bad.

But yes, I agree, it will be difficult for any successful prosecution at this point. We've got:

  • A dead boy
  • No eyewitnesses/conflicting witness testimony
  • Police with some shady past behavior
  • Possible police misconduct/negligence/incompetence
  • Possible racism
  • Misinformation and innuendo
  • Lawyers
  • High pubicity (Good luck finding an impartial jury. Mistrial, anyone?)
  • New Black Panther Party
  • Al Sharpton
  • Possible civil rights violation
  • Justice department with, uh, interesting record on guns
  • NRA
  • Politicians
  • Election year, with minority demographics in play

I'm sure I'm missing something. Not looking so hot for an outcome that will satisfy anyone.
 
#767
nutdog said:
I've listened to the several different recordings. I don't hear the "p" in punks. I hear the "c" (k) sound up front but also hear a bit of a "k" sound at the end.

What makes me unsure is that the middle is more of a long "o" (oh) sound, not "oo", so in total it sounds like "cokes", which doesn't make any sense. I don't know how much cutting and boosting frequencies changes the actual word sounds, but I would think it would have some sort of effect. Someone could argue the "cleaned" audio is actually "altered" audio.

So I've concluded I can't tell what he said...
Click to expand...

I am with you here.

I agree that the 'cleaned up' audio seems to have a 'k' sound at the front that I couldn't hear before. The vowel sound in the middle is still unusual - still not a definitive 'oo', but it's not at 'uh' sounding as it used to be... It sounds MORE like he said 'coons' - but it's still not definitive to my ears.

I don't think you could base a case against him on that bit of sketchy audio - but I do think the animosity Zimmerman has for Trayvon is very clear and the fact that he was out to stop him from committing the imaginary crimes he manufactured in his delusional mind is equally clear.
 
#768
tZer said:
I am with you here.

I agree that the 'cleaned up' audio seems to have a 'k' sound at the front that I couldn't hear before. The vowel sound in the middle is still unusual - still not a definitive 'oo', but it's not at 'uh' sounding as it used to be... It sounds MORE like he said 'coons' - but it's still not definitive to my ears.

I don't think you could base a case against him on that bit of sketchy audio - but I do think the animosity Zimmerman has for Trayvon is very clear and the fact that he was out to stop him from committing the imaginary crimes he manufactured in his delusional mind is equally clear.
Click to expand...

There's a level of outright contempt in Zimmerman's voice, so much so that even without the "coons" thing, it's really really hard for me personally to believe that there's not more than a little racist angle to his thoughts and actions.
 
#769
sloasdaylight said:
Everyone's been told already that Zimmerman may have said coons, so if you think you're about to hear a word, it's easy to say "Oh yep, that's definitely the word I heard."
Click to expand...

My brain doesn't work like that at all. I am enough of an individual to think and listen to sounds with out any sub conscious assistance from any outside sources.

And no I'm not being sarcastic.
 
#770
guy n. cognito said:
Re: ballistics and blood.

I understand that the lack of analysis has compounded the anger some have, but remember this: there is no doubt that Zimmerman shot Martin. There is no doubt what gun he used. The gun is, with most certainty, in police custody. There is really no need to investigate these things because they are known facts admitted by the shooter.
Click to expand...

If that confession were ever put into question, then any investigation into those items would be able to stand on its own. As it is now, everything rests on it. That's pretty awful police work.
 
#771
JAUQO III-X said:
My brain doesn't work like that at all. I am enough of an individual to think and listen to sounds with out any sub conscious assistance from any outside sources.

And no I'm not being sarcastic.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I just don't think that's how our brains work. I study and teach linguistics, and there are studies that show that we are very receptive to influence from other speakers around us and the language we use - we alter our pronunciation and choice of vocabulary without even being aware that we do so. It would be doubtful that reading transcripts of the recording, or discussions of what it says, wouldn't influence your perception subconsciously.

That being said, there are ways to analyze speech sounds which can reveal accurately (within limits placed on us by the recording method) what was pronounced. The interpretation from what was pronounced to what the actual words were, however, is a bigger leap - we need to know more about Zimmerman's speech and how he ordinarily pronounces things to determine things like that.
 
#772
onosson said:
If that confession were ever put into question, then any investigation into those items would be able to stand on its own. As it is now, everything rests on it. That's pretty awful police work.
Click to expand...

I suppose that Zimmerman could change his story and claim that he didn't shoot him, but thats nearly implausible at this point.
 
#774
onosson said:
People make confessions and retract them all the time. The police have and had no way of knowing whether he would do that or not, and shouldn't have conducted their investigation so as to rely on it.
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Sure they do, but it is usually an unbelievable position to take.......especially when they've already admitted it. and especially in this case where the shooter has already employed a self defense defense.

I would also assume that the police have the firearm in custody. It is SOP to take possession of the firearm, even if it was a clear cut self defense shooting.
 
#776
JAUQO III-X said:
My brain doesn't work like that at all. I am enough of an individual to think and listen to sounds with out any sub conscious assistance from any outside sources.

And no I'm not being sarcastic.
Click to expand...
With all due respect I think some of your prior posts regarding your ability to hear the fundamental of a low C# would suggest otherwise. As others have pointed out, humans can't divorce themselves from the effects of pyschological and physicalogical effects of sound on them. And no, I'm not benig sarcastic either.

If there are enough reports or postiive confirmations that the word used was the "c" word, most people are going to interpret what they hear as the "c" word. I tried to be as objective as I could and I still heard the "c" word in many of my repeated listens - in more listens I think I heard the sounds that would lead to the conclusion the word "punks". I still can't say for certain that it wasn't another word (eg "goons") because befroe I even listen to it I was primed with the knowledge that popular opinion suggests its either the "c" word or "punks".
 
#779
Mark Latimour said:
With all due respect I think some of your prior posts regarding your ability to hear the fundamental of a low C# would suggest otherwise. As others have pointed out, humans can't divorce themselves from the effects of pyschological and physicalogical effects of sound on them. And no, I'm not benig sarcastic either.

If there are enough reports or postiive confirmations that the word used was the "c" word, most people are going to interpret what they hear as the "c" word. I tried to be as objective as I could and I still heard the "c" word in many of my repeated listens - in more listens I think I heard the sounds that would lead to the conclusion the word "punks". I still can't say for certain that it wasn't another word (eg "goons") because befroe I even listen to it I was primed with the knowledge that popular opinion suggests its either the "c" word or "punks".
Click to expand...


My brain nor are my ears influenced to think that I hear words that are not there.
 
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